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Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

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Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#91
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly don't think you should be ridiculed for the notion, although I think my counter thought would be why should it be one or the other, and how confident are we in the engineering side of the solution at a wide scale. To my knowledge masks are a low cost / lost risk way to reduce the spread, and countries that had faster uptake and higher rates of compliance in mask usage did see lower overall case counts. Th…

> To my knowledge masks are a low cost / lost risk way to reduce the spread, and countries that had faster uptake and higher rates of compliance in mask usage did see lower overall case counts. 1) This isn't really true. There's not a lot of correlation between what nations/states did, and where they ended up. You can find observational papers on both sides of every question (for example, specific to masks, recently:…

Trials on masks universally fail to take into account the field results. And that’s where they fall down. Mask effectiveness relies on purity - everybody doing things with military (or medical) precision.

The short of it is that people don’t stick rigidly to the effectiveness requirement. Hence why states and countries that stop compulsion don’t see any deviation in the rate of change.

Like HCQ it works in the lab, but not in real life.

What’s disturbing is why so many people still believe they do - and why they desperately want them to work - which moves into the political and religious (“I’m pure - it’s everybody else that isn’t”) rather than the scientific.

At this stage it’s become like carrying posies to ward off the Black Death.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#92
post #61

My town's school system is all in on healthy buildings -- they got parent MD/PhDs to read the literature and invite outside experts to advise, then they set minimum air change per hour and minimum filtration criteria (something like, classrooms may reopen iff they have 5 air changes per hour with outdoor or MERV 13+ filtered air). They did a bunch of HVAC work to support this goal and have reopened okay. The town's o…

Agree

You don't need the WHO or some higher authority to tell you opening windows or circulating more air during a pandemic is a good idea.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#93
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to understand that what CDC & FDA etc say is not "science". These are federal regulatory agencies whose mission is to enforce regulations. This is part of a political process, and their leaders ultimately serve at the pleasure of the president. When the prominent scientists who work there speak on issues, they are speaking as employees of that organization, not giving their best scientific estimation.…

>The WHO is a UN agency that's probably even more politicized, but I don't know much about it. Tedros was hand picked by China. He was a communist during his time in Ethiopia. This was a big controversy years before covid. I was wondering why China would possibly care so much, I thought it was just them trying to increase their international clout however possible...

Any source to back up your claim. I read Wikipedia Tedros receive overwhelming majority of the votes. The problem is WHO is don't have enough power to do it's jobs. Based on below article. Even US and UK ignored WHO advice.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/apr/10/world-health-or...

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#94

I suggested this as an alternative to mask enforcement months ago and was ridiculed on hacker news. I'm happy to see the idea come up again as it has a lot of solid science behind it.

It's not either/or.

"Opening a window", some places don't even have a window to open.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#95
post #6

> The who therefore played down the risks of aerosols, issuing guidance via its Twitter and Facebook pages at the end of March 2020 that the general public need not worry. “FACT: #COVID19 is NOT airborne,” it said, adding that any claims to the contrary were “misinformation”. Not quite the money quote, but on reading this I wanted to point out one little thing. This is also a form of authoritarianism, not the splashy…

> FACT: COVID-19 is NOT airborne.

> The coronavirus is mainly transmitted through droplets generated when an infected person coughs, sneezes or speaks.

> To protect yourself:

> -keep 1m distance from others

> -disinfect surfaces frequently

> -wash/rub your

> -avoid touching your

From: https://www.facebook.com/WHO/posts/fact-covid-19-is-not-airb...

Further reading: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2021/05/28/who-wrong-...

Semantics played a huge role in this whole debacle. even to the point of what "airborne" means.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#96
post #74
post #6

> The who therefore played down the risks of aerosols, issuing guidance via its Twitter and Facebook pages at the end of March 2020 that the general public need not worry. “FACT: #COVID19 is NOT airborne,” it said, adding that any claims to the contrary were “misinformation”. Not quite the money quote, but on reading this I wanted to point out one little thing. This is also a form of authoritarianism, not the splashy…

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/transcr... Coronavirus press conference 11 February, 2020 Tedros gives the money quote: > That was exactly what we were trying to do in DRC so we don't want, as WHO, to go into speculation. Okay, people can have projections. We prefer, what can be done with the equipment or the solutions at hand and do our best to contain it at the source without undermining its gr…

I don't understand why it's not a crime to alter or suppress medical information on political grounds in any circumstances other than possibly a absolute necessity for protecting the [vast] majority by some way eg possibly avoiding panic reactions.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#97
post #93
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The WHO is a UN agency that's probably even more politicized, but I don't know much about it. Tedros was hand picked by China. He was a communist during his time in Ethiopia. This was a big controversy years before covid. I was wondering why China would possibly care so much, I thought it was just them trying to increase their international clout however possible...

Any source to back up your claim. I read Wikipedia Tedros receive overwhelming majority of the votes. The problem is WHO is don't have enough power to do it's jobs. Based on below article. Even US and UK ignored WHO advice. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/apr/10/world-health-or...

this is the second result from Google for "tedros Chinese support who election":

https://www.cfr.org/blog/who-and-china-dereliction-duty

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#98

I suggested this as an alternative to mask enforcement months ago and was ridiculed on hacker news. I'm happy to see the idea come up again as it has a lot of solid science behind it.

This shouldn't be seen as a replacement for masks but as a realization that viruses easily form infectious particles. The initial response was insanity and driven largely by hospital's desire to avoid expensive PPE use.

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#99
post #9

There is a lot of low hanging fruit in this area being ignored. Here in Ireland, the pandemic is still raging and they are reopening stores – okay, that's a tradeoff on which reasonable people can disagree. But then there's no air circulating in the stores. Ventilation could be significantly improved by such a trivial measure as keeping the front door propped open, but they don't bother. Why not?

It's not even remotely raging

Re: Improving ventilation will help curb SARS-CoV-2

#100
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/transcr... Coronavirus press conference 11 February, 2020 Tedros gives the money quote: > That was exactly what we were trying to do in DRC so we don't want, as WHO, to go into speculation. Okay, people can have projections. We prefer, what can be done with the equipment or the solutions at hand and do our best to contain it at the source without undermining its gr…

I don't understand why it's not a crime to alter or suppress medical information on political grounds in any circumstances other than possibly a absolute necessity for protecting the [vast] majority by some way eg possibly avoiding panic reactions.

Because in the PRC, the government, legislature and military are all officially subordinate to a political organization. The WHO is a treaty organization, effectively above the laws of nations because it is an offshoot of a diplomatic forum.

Whatever you think of the reasons, these are the reasons.

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