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It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

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Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#671

Post by rockemsockem »

shafyy wrote: post #263
bo1024 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, my understanding is that cryptocurrencies are having impact in developing countries. They can address hyperinflation, access to financial services, general friction in exchanging money etc.

Do you have a source for this? For example, Erdogan flat out banned businesses from accepting cryptocurrency when he saw that people were putting their money in cryptos because of the inflation of the Turkish Lira. It's not like cryptos are a stable currency, either. Question: Wouldn't it make more sense for people in develping countries to buy more stable assets or currencies, or is it not possible to that because o…

Venezuela was using Bitcoin a lot when they were experiencing hyper inflation. I just Googled this again for an update and I saw that they may have dropped their former currency altogether?

I think access is a major problem here, although I haven't dug into the issue enough to know for sure.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#672

Post by chrisco255 »

cbzbc wrote: post #407
kragen wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wealthy can already evade currency controls; that's what it means to be wealthy, at least in a place that has them. Bitcoin and similar systems enable the poor to evade currency controls, as well as frankly confiscatory regulation like the bank-deposit-conversion episode I mentioned, precisely because it's accessible to everyone , not just the lucky few. I've already addressed your point about governmental change…

How does someone who is poor convert their local - non dollar denominated - currency to bitcoins? The reality is that it's just another means for the wealthy (and criminals) to evade currency controls.

Over the counter? People still trade and meet in person, you know? The reality is the US petrodollar is the preferred currency of choice for criminals.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#673

Post by Beaver117 »

pavlov wrote: post #21

“But it’s like the early Internet!” shouted the Emperor’s coinholders. “The Internet wasn’t yet useful a mere, um, thirteen years after its invention either.” I can see how people in their twenties would fall for this argument because they can’t remember. The reality is that the internet was immediately extremely interesting (either useful or fun) for practically everyone who got access. Email and ftp alone were kill…

I maintain that the most useful feature of crypto is still crime. The Silk Road was the killer app.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#674

Post by e9 »

ertian wrote: post #324
e9 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s both. It’s not a scam in a sense that it is a store of value(digital property) to a small degree. But a scam in a sense that it can’t power every day transactions or day to day needs etc

There are a dozen different approaches to solving the bandwidth problems. IMHO, it's safe to say one or more will succeed.

Pretty much all of them require to do transactions outside of Bitcoin network and making parts of the system more centralized and more vulnerable.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#675

Post by rockemsockem »

leifg wrote: post #604
ipnon wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very simple game theory answer to this question: tragedy of the commons. There is a reason popular culture stereotypes financiers as greedy sociopaths. If the system can be cracked then it will be cracked. No shortage of examples, Bernie Madoffs, subprime lending crises, endless financial crashes and crises. Blockchains solve this problem, as in mathematically proves that certain classes of exploits requiring informa…

That sounds like a typical blockchain enthusiast answer: The banking industry is corrupt. Blockchain solves this. End of argument. I have yet to see a specific, easy to explain answer on how blockchain solves any kind of fraud. Who is forcing any of these fraudsters to put any information on the blockchain? As soon as you need external safe guards you are back to square one. I don’t have the solution to any of the pr…

Say instead of using a bank to store your money you store it on the blockchain. Suddenly you don't have to worry about Wells Fargo opening accounts in your name and charging you fees for those accounts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wells_Fargo_account_fraud_scan...

Say something like a traditional bank emerged on the blockchain in the form of a smart contract and you stored money with them to have them invest it or something. There would be a public record of all charges the smart contract billed you for and tracking the history of it would be way easier than piecing together your Wells Fargo statements to figure out they've been charging you a couple dollars more every month. This also would be much easier for auditors and financial crime investigators to notice.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#676

Post by cyou111 »

As a software engineer I was curious about bitcoin in 2017, when price was around $15,000, so I bought $500 bitcoin through coinbase. I created a personal wallet and transferred half of the bitcoin to it.

Two big issues immediately stands out that made me believe that bitcoin has no future:

1. Long latency of transactions. I remember it took about 10 minutes for the purchase on coinbase to finish, and another 10 minutes to transfer half of the bitcoin to my personal wallet. This makes it impossible to use bitcoin as a currency. Imagine I go to a store and at check out, I need to wait for 10 minutes for the payment to go through.

2. High transaction cost. The transaction fee to transfer the bitcoin to my personal wallet cost around $15 (if I remember correctly), an astonishingly high fee.

I kept the bitcoin as a souvenir, and when this year price go crazy, I sold half of my bitcoins on coinbase when price was at $50K, to recoup what I spent on it in 2017; and still kept the half in my wallet, as a souvenir of what I believe to be the biggest ponzy scheme in human history.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#677

Post by tiborsaas »

idlewords wrote: post #252
ggreer wrote: post #209

Tweets like those are why Pinboard is one of the few Twitter accounts I've blocked. On certain issues, the author loves to righteously sneer. It annoys the hell out of me because when he's not sneering, he can be a knowledgeable and clear thinker. He's like a glass of wine with a single fly in it. This behavior isn't just annoying to others; it's harmful to his own goals. If Maciej had hedged his bets and accepted Bi…

Let's be clear that if I had accepted Bitcoin payments in 2013, I would have then lost them all a year or two later when my exchange got hacked. That would make me an even more bitter person now. I can't remember ever calling for a ban on cryptocurrency. If you're remembering something I'm not, then please correct me.

Cold wallets solve this issue. Exchanges should be used for exchanging assets, it's not wise to store larger amounts there.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#678

Post by Invictus0 »

nadahalli wrote: post #550
mandelken wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your background and experience, I guess. In many European countries ATMs are free, even outside your own country. It is considered an elementary part of the banking service that you don't have to pay to withdraw your own money.

Many European countries also charge negative interest rates. In Switzerland, where I live, bank balances above CHF 100K gets a flat -0.75% interest rate. Just saying.

Since 1993, the Swiss inflation rate has been well below 2% in every year except 2008, so you'd still come out ahead compared to the US--assuming you weren't spending all your money on ATM fees.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#679

Post by CyberRabbi »

idlewords wrote: post #646
CyberRabbi wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those individuals need the consent of at least two private corporations Not true, you can exchange Bitcoin locally with other individuals. Mailing paper money or checks over postal service is not comparable to making payments using Bitcoin online. Especially when considering international payments.

Yeah, but ultimately you want to spend that bitcoin on something, otherwise you're just trading rare baseball cards with your friend. At that point (and at the point where someone bought bitcoin to send you) you need contact with the real money system.

> you need contact with the real money system.

Yeah that’s what I’m saying. People meet up in real life and exchange Bitcoin for cash locally. Various forums, web systems, and message boards exist to facilitate this.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#680

Post by Macha »

chrisco255 wrote: post #668
lottin wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the fundamental flaws you're talking about? For a payments system, the fact that all transactions are final is pretty bad. I'd say this, by itself, makes the system unusable in the real world.

This is how cash and gold worked for thousands of years.

But not for the last couple thousand, thanks to legal systems, or before that "running fraudsters out of town"
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