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It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

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Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#641

Post by disqard »

floatboth wrote: post #580
SubiculumCode wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think these defi projects are hurting the environment then you have not been paying attention to the industry. Proof of Stake, what most smart contract tokens are moving to, is very energy efficient.

Is anyone actually really sure that Proof of Steak is secure though? Anyway, none of this matters because Bitcoin exists and is the dominant shitcoin (due to first mover advantage). All these other shitcoins can claim whatever efficiency, but it doesn't matter because that's a very isolated view of the problem. The shitcoin economy as a whole will still be fueled by mining unless somehow Bitcoin gets dethroned and th…

This is my first time hearing the moniker "shitcoin". Thank you :D

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#642

Post by lefrenchy »

seibelj wrote: post #329
lefrenchy wrote: post #193

One thing that I find so confusing in the crypto maximalist sphere is the obsession with decentralization of everything but also with mainstream adoption. Coinbase is centralization, bank adoption is centralization, etc... Also if “fear of regulation” causes massive sell-offs, doesn’t it totally fail at being the “anti-government” centralized currency? I’m also just not convinced total decentralization is good? I mea…

Decentralization is a spectrum. Bitcoin cannot be shutdown because it is decentralized. There can be centralized actors within a decentralized system. The major benefit is you can choose between various service providers and switch when you please. With government monopolies you use their service at gunpoint.

> With government monopolies you use their services at gunpoint

I mean sure, in an authoritarian state that’s what happens. I’m just not convinced crypto is the solution? In order to evade being at gunpoint you’d essentially need all your crypto transactions to be undiscoverable to an all powerful entity, which is probably mostly possible and that’s great. The downside is you now open yourself to people being able to take all your money from you with close to no discoverability. In order to keep that privacy you’d have to avoid all centralized exchanges and manage most of this yourself and i’m just not convinced 99% of people need or want that?

I’m not saying the tech isn’t impressive or the idea in its purest form compelling and interesting, but there’s a lot of fantasy I think.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#643

Post by haskellandchill »

alfarisi17296 wrote: post #583
heurist wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused about why Bitcoin is being discussed in the past tense when both usage and price have both grown significantly over the last year. Is it already dead? Could have fooled me.

You didn't notice? This chat is mostly composed of people salty because they didn't buy when they had the chance. Oops!

This common retort is so tired, can we just stop with it once and for all. The price history of Bitcoin is irrelevant to the arguments given here against it.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#644

Post by mmcgr »

jedberg wrote: post #393
alecbz wrote: post #118

Isn't all currency more or less a "pyramid scheme" in the sense that Bitcoin is? I wish we had more subtlety in our discourse. It feels like it's all either blind admiration or blind condemnation. Bitcoin is trying to be a new currency. Currencies more or less operate on "collective delusion". I think many people scratching their heads at why Bitcoin is worth anything _are_ missing something, which is why any currenc…

Fiat currency is backed by courts and regulation, which is backed by a literal army, and the threats of violence that army brings. If someone steals your fiat USD, there will eventually be someone with guns removing you from society if you don't return them. Cryptocurrency has no such backing.

>If someone steals your fiat USD

>Cryptocurrency has no such backing.

Unless someone steals your private key, I don't think it's very feasible for someone to steal _your cryptocurrency_ without going against the whole network

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#645

Post by chrisco255 »

morelisp wrote: post #111
chrisco255 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been looking at the Maetaverse at all? https://www.sandbox.game/en/ https://decentraland.org/ These are 3D virtual world environments and people are using crypto to build an online economy. They are trading property, buying virtual artwork and creating galleries, setting up clubs and meeting spaces, etc. You can also explore decentralized finance, act as a peer-to-peer lender, provide liquidity in a marketpl…

> They are trading property, buying virtual artwork and creating galleries, setting up clubs and meeting spaces, etc. This all happens in Second Life and doesn't need to burn the planet to do it.

Ethereum is transitioning to proof of stake which means the nodes will run on raspberry pis. At any rate, if you think data centers are burning the planet, you really should boycott the internet. Its data centers and mainframes all the way down.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#646

Post by idlewords »

CyberRabbi wrote: post #265
idlewords wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those individuals need the consent of at least two private corporations (whatever entity converts spendable money to Bitcoin and back on either end). Compare that to sending an envelope full of dollars.

> Those individuals need the consent of at least two private corporations Not true, you can exchange Bitcoin locally with other individuals. Mailing paper money or checks over postal service is not comparable to making payments using Bitcoin online. Especially when considering international payments.

Yeah, but ultimately you want to spend that bitcoin on something, otherwise you're just trading rare baseball cards with your friend. At that point (and at the point where someone bought bitcoin to send you) you need contact with the real money system.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#647

Post by leifg »

ipnon wrote: post #636
leifg wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a typical blockchain enthusiast answer: The banking industry is corrupt. Blockchain solves this. End of argument. I have yet to see a specific, easy to explain answer on how blockchain solves any kind of fraud. Who is forcing any of these fraudsters to put any information on the blockchain? As soon as you need external safe guards you are back to square one. I don’t have the solution to any of the pr…

Well my answer would be that there are many different types of exploits that we may consider fraud. As I said blockchains prevent _some_ of these exploits but not all. I don't think we can prevent laundering of illegal arms sales with cryptocurrency just as I don't think we can prevent the same laundering with actual paper bills.[a] However blockchains do prevent problems like double spending and information asymmetr…

So blockchain solves some unspecified subset of fraud. But only people who know enough about finance and technology are able to understand how this fraud is prevented?

A lot of time has passed. Why has no one come up with these higher level abstractions?

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#648

Post by p1necone »

meowkit wrote: post #64
skrebbel wrote: post #50

These two resonated with me: > A lot of intelligent observers look at cryptocurrency, see that it makes no sense, and reasonably infer that they must be missing something profound on the technical level. Tech culture has a nice tradition of not deriding new ideas, but we need to break it here and speak out > [non-tech people] don't see the huge silent majority of tech people who know it's a scam. That's on us It is o…

> I'm pretty sure it's nothing but a pyramid scheme, but I always gave the enthusiasts the benefit of the doubt. So go find out? I’m quoting you here for the “pretty sure” part. Do a deep dive. I’be done deep dives on Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cardano, Monero, Nano, Iota, Hyperledger, BSC, Uniswap, Tether, Chainlink and cursory glances at dozens of other coins/tokens. I’m a tech guy. I work on an operating system/embedded s…

It's not that the tech itself is a scam per se (although there are plenty of cryptocurrencies that were started with the express purpose of being a ponzi scheme or a pre-mined vehicle for a pump and dump).

It's just that widely available, totally unregulated financial instruments will always be primarily used to run ponzi schemes, pump and dumps and meaningless speculation (meaningless in that speculators are largely just speculating based on what other speculators might do).

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#649

Post by icelancer »

idlewords wrote: post #275
icelancer wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> What I don't understand about the crypto remittances argument is how the people sending and receiving them are supposed to convert them into spendable currency. For all the harsh words you posted without evidence, thankfully you've at least admitted you don't understand much. Your premise is that cryptocurrency is not "spendable currency" which is simply false. I pay people in hyperinflationary environments in cry…

How does their direct purchase work? How do I buy a pizza on the blockchain in a hyperinflationary country?

The vendor accepts cryptocurrency as payment?

Is this such an incredulous thing to believe in a country where the official fiat currency is worthless?

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#650

Post by beloch »

What is it supposed to do?

Does it actually do that?

What else does it do, intentionally or unintentionally?

Who benefits from it, and who pays the costs?

Is this exchange worth it for those paying?

These are basic questions we should ask, not just about cryptocurrencies, but about the finance sector in general. When investment firms cause recessions or famines as a side-effect of enriching themselves, we have to ask if they're worth tolerating or if governments should drastically tighten regulations.

Cryptocurrencies are just the low-hanging fruit. The whole tree is worth shaking.

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