Live data from Hacker News

It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

twitter.com

601–610 of 1001 posts

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#601
post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it is being adopted by pay processors like Square, PayPal, and Cash App, and is being accepted by some large retailers like Newegg and Overstock. Wouldn't discredit that as not being progress :/

This is another thing cryptocurrency enthusiasts have been doing for a long time: name dropping some companies who are supposedly embracing bitcoin but without any evidence of actual user adoption. Newegg and Overstock don't even take payment in bitcoin. They allow you to use a third party processor to exchange bitcoin for USD then immediately transfer the funds to the retailer. There's no evidence that these payment…

> ...without any evidence of actual user adoption.

For example of Square:

> Its mobile payment service Cash App has been its flagship product. However, in recent times, while Square reported that cash transactions at its U.S. merchants as a percentage of overall transactions fell from more than 50% in 2015 to around 30% today, the bulk of the company’s revenue this past year – around 56% – came from Bitcoin transactions. Over the past year, revenue from bitcoin was $1.8 billion – a whopping 10X increase over 2019’s revenues in this category. [0]

So this 10X increase isn't an indicator of adoption then, they just made up this figure?

[0] https://leverageshares.com/en/insights/square-paypal-catalys...

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that these dismissive, trash-talk comments with zero value get upvoted on HN as long as it's against crypto. It really is a double-standard here. Ironically, that comment is also part of the groupthink.

I think the issue is that mostly these smart contracts and efficient coins are not the main attraction. The main attraction is Bitcoin and recently Dogecoin. BTC is slow and costly and mostly a speculative play. Dogecoin is a joke, but also worth billions. Also these coins are speculatively often first, and useful second. Not all but many. Thus instead of being useful for exchange, they become methods of speculation.…

"Smart contracts" (public finance bots) are basically Ponzi-as-a-Service. Someone launched an explicit "PonziCoin" on ETH even.

"It's just overtaken" is not a great take. The problems are way more fundamental – the whole concept of trustless irreversible digital cash just does not work in the real world for normal transactions.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#603
post #555
post #162

What is surprising is how large the number of techies who don’t get this. It’s not about crypto currencies as much as it is about the game theory that allows it to run a distributed self replicating state machine that is Byzantine tolerant - this is the true innovation

I think part of the problem is that mining was a very clever solution to a logical puzzle that seemed impossible to solve. Like bloom filters, it's tempting to find a use for it, because the algorithm is so cool. However, the theory and practice turned out to be very different. Neat algorithm can't be used as an excuse for the whole ecosystem that emerged around it: insatiable electricity usage of PoW, pump and dump,…

Yes, this is the kind of discourse I would expect to see around blockchain technology from a group of smart nerds. I can't argue with that, the oldest blockchain kind of failed to prove itself valid in significant ways.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#604
post #577
post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is cryptocurrency/blockchain necessary for that? You could have all of this with open banking standards.

Very simple game theory answer to this question: tragedy of the commons. There is a reason popular culture stereotypes financiers as greedy sociopaths. If the system can be cracked then it will be cracked. No shortage of examples, Bernie Madoffs, subprime lending crises, endless financial crashes and crises. Blockchains solve this problem, as in mathematically proves that certain classes of exploits requiring informa…

That sounds like a typical blockchain enthusiast answer:

The banking industry is corrupt. Blockchain solves this. End of argument.

I have yet to see a specific, easy to explain answer on how blockchain solves any kind of fraud. Who is forcing any of these fraudsters to put any information on the blockchain? As soon as you need external safe guards you are back to square one.

I don’t have the solution to any of the problems of the banking industry but in my experience technical solutions don’t solve any of these societal problems.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#605
post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% this. It's the world's greatest machine for generating motivated reasoning. People buy in during the pump and get incredibly motivated to join the immune system for their chosen coin.

I spent a long time giving NFTs the benefit of the doubt because I didn’t really get it and I couldn’t get anyone to explain it to me who wasn’t also VERY invested in their outcome and unable to concede the possibility of any downsides.

What are your thoughts on NFT's after giving it the benefit of the doubt? I, too, wanted to give the NFT space a chance because admittedly I wanted to cash in while the gettin was good. But after digging into things before I dipped my toes, the whole thing smelled foul, even if people I know and respect are making good money in that space. It's just off to me, the motivations, moreso than the tech & function & problems it purports to address/ solve. A big ole hype machine that doesn't seem like it has real depth, integrity or soul, to use a bit more flowery language.

Curious what you landed on, though.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#606
post #587
post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yield farm generator Madoff levels of returns (10+%). Why do you assume these are risk equivalent to a USD savings account? There’s no free lunch.

How do you think your bank manages to make billions of dollars in profit every year? Do you think the money that millions of Americans lend to them for effectively 0% returns has anything to do with it? What do you imagine they do with that money, and how does it differ substantially from what DeFi calls yield farming?

Yield farming carries a similar or greater risk to investing in stocks and sector ETFs, and that is certainly not what retail banks do with customer funds (that was outlawed by the Volcker Rule in Dodd-Frank), nor is retail banking how investment banks make money. Nevermind that there obviously is no FDIC insurance for these crypto "savings accounts".

You're asking good questions, but be careful not to jump to easy answers -- you might lose your money!

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#607
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the fundamental flaws you're talking about? For a payments system, the fact that all transactions are final is pretty bad. I'd say this, by itself, makes the system unusable in the real world.

I observe the exact opposite: people do not like accepting the risk of payments that can be reversed because the buyer does a chargeback scam, or used a hacked paypal account. Multisig escrow is also better in every way if people want to involve a third party in case of a dispute

Right, the thing is if I want to involve a third party (and I definitely want that), I wouldn't use a decentralised system to begin with, because decentralised means inherently inefficient and therefore expensive.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#608
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crypto is so large, complex and fast-moving that it takes thousands of hours to grasp. The thing is, regular money is, from a certain perspective, also a "scam". A lot of the financial system is effectively make-believe, with massive conflicts of interest at every corner and dynamics that keep working because everyone believes they should - until, for one reason or another, they stop believing, and then you have 20…

Fiat money has value because it is widely, almost universally, accepted in exchange for things of intrinsic value (food, shelter, toys, tools). I'm not aware of any non-government-backed fiat currency which has gained widespread use in the history of humanity. And in fact all of the fiat currencies I know of originated as representative money. Bitcoin is not widely accepted in exchange for things of values, and I see…

> Fiat money has value because it is widely, almost universally, accepted in exchange for things of intrinsic value

No, technically fiat money has value because it is accepted by a government to settle taxes. Which is why it loses value dramatically when a state collapses or otherwise becomes irrelevant to the local economy. Because traditionally the state itself was the issuer of such currency, already we have a massive conflict of interest at the very start: when the state pays out his own debts in its own currency, it's effectively asking his creditors to believe that currency has some value in the real world, while also telling them exactly how much that is supposed be. To "solve" this problem they invented central banks, which are supposed to keep governments away from the process of determining the actual value of a currency, if you believe that they are as independent as they proclaim. In the end, what matters is that enough people believe that certain arrangements are fair, and that the government will still be there tomorrow asking them for taxes. As long as that's true, one might well use the currency as a unit to settle private trades too, but that is a consequence of the original belief.

> I'm not aware of any non-government-backed fiat currency which has gained widespread use in the history of humanity

The key in this sentence is "widespread", which is something you can redefine pretty arbitrarily and hence move goalposts as required. In practice, other tokens have been used here and there, but in the end, what wins tends to be government-backed tokens for the simple reason that authorities will always enjoy a right to put you in prison if you don't settle your taxes in the currency they desire.

If you look at it from a technical perspective, any collapsed state where the local currency has been wiped out and internal trades are settled in USD or EUR (a pretty common occurrence), in practice is already using an non-government-backed token, something on which nobody in the local economy has any control. To these areas, it doesn't really matter that the USD will be accepted by the US Federal Government to settle taxes; they just need a unit, and since this unit is accepted at the fringes of their system, well, might as well use it internally too.

> Being able to spend it is the "killer app" of cryptocurrencies

No, being able to convert into other tokens at the fringes is the killer app. Which quite a few cryptocurrencies do have, although in an extremely fragile state. The longer they keep them up, though, the easier it gets, as more and more people believe that the underpinning arrangements are fair and exchanges will still be here tomorrow to exfiltrate value to prison-avoiding currencies.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#609
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a tech guy. I've spent years experimenting with crypto and it isn't fit for any legitimate purpose.

Stablecoins like USDC, if everything around it is legit, can be viewed as a programmable dollar... circumventing everything and anything bank-related to do the same work. That's pretty legit IMO.

> if everything around it is legit

Ha ha ha. That would only be possible with a government issued digital currency. Any private company running a "stablecoin" is guaranteed fraudulent. Can't be legit.

https://twitter.com/Bitfinexed/status/1398722723543760897

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#610
post #291
post #264

I could waste a huge amount of time refuting the author's points, but will make it more of a meta comment. Crypto is vast, complex, and inherently not suitable for binary thinking. I've studied the space for months and have come to the conclusion that crypto is two-sided in almost every aspect. Many/most coins are speculative, which you can associate with words like "greed" and "casino". Yet also provide wealth savin…

Crypto == Cryptography over here. Just FYI

This battle has been lost my friend. The new cyber and crypto are here to stay :)
Post reply on HN