Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 1001 posts

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#461

Post by mattgreenrocks »

SamBam wrote: post #406
meowkit wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty sure it's nothing but a pyramid scheme, but I always gave the enthusiasts the benefit of the doubt. So go find out? I’m quoting you here for the “pretty sure” part. Do a deep dive. I’be done deep dives on Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cardano, Monero, Nano, Iota, Hyperledger, BSC, Uniswap, Tether, Chainlink and cursory glances at dozens of other coins/tokens. I’m a tech guy. I work on an operating system/embedded s…

> Nothing about blockchains, DLTs, crypto, at its core is a scam to me. I think everyone is talking past each other, because no one's exactly defining what the "scam" is, so you're talking about different things. I don't think anyone's suggesting that, say, deep in the BitCoin code there is some algorithm giving Satoshi Nakamoto a dollar for evert transaction. On the other hand, I believe that the vast majority of bu…

Yeah. And I think some people see that and think, “okay I can get in on that too!” while others think, “this whole thing smells and can’t be sustainable.”

I fall into the latter camp. I don’t begrudge the former. I just don’t think it’ll last and have little taste for speculating.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#462

Post by hmrtn »

I think it's time for us in the tech world to speak out and make it clear the emperor has no clothes here. _Gold_ is sustained by a mix of money laundering, human slavery, fraud, ransom, gambling, and delusion. It has no social benefit except helping end first dates fast.

What we especially need to stress to regulators is that there's no relationship between the claims of _gold_ and our now thousands of years of experience. It's not decentralized, it's not a currency, it's not a store of value, and it's not a promising element.

_Gold_ solves no problems that it didn't first create, and most of those it doesn't solve. Banks are neither of those things—at worst they're an API for fraud, or as I put it, self-funding institutional greed.

I think most of us in the industry gave gold a long leash because it's full of cleverness and seemed innovative just on those terms. But it's time we recognize that cleverness is being used as bait to defraud more people and perpetuate a con. Enough is enough.

The two things people need to know about gold are completely non-technical:

1. If it isn't backed by self-perpetuating value, it isn't worth anything outside of industry process (electronics, etc.)

2. If it works, it creates an end run around all financial regulation, and will be dominated by uses those regulations try to stop

And the list goes on. I am not equating cryptocurrency to gold, I am just trying to point out the absurdity of the authors statements.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#463

Post by [deleted] »

jeofken wrote: post #302
idlewords wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be clear that if I had accepted Bitcoin payments in 2013, I would have then lost them all a year or two later when my exchange got hacked. That would make me an even more bitter person now. I can't remember ever calling for a ban on cryptocurrency. If you're remembering something I'm not, then please correct me.

Let me know if you want a hand in setting up a private key on a normal computer

[deleted]

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#465

Post by shkkmo »

DSingularity wrote: post #257
blintz wrote: post #154

I think this actually overstates the value of cryptocurrencies. The value of say, Bitcoin, isn't even connected to its value as a method of money laundering or extortion through ransomware. However morally objectionable these are, they do have economic value - it's just that value is not connected to the price of any cryptocurrency. Rather, the whole thing is an extended, worldwide pump-and-dump; speculation is drivi…

It’s the combination of strong network effects and artificial scarcity driving the price action. You buy Bitcoin cause something about it really resonated with you. Price goes up and you feel validated. You go and naturally — out of benevolent intentions — tell your closes people so they don’t miss out. The mistake of cryptocurrency is discounting the potential for price manipulation. Earl adopters understood cornere…

> These cycles are continuously producing winners and losers and the losers are generally those who have more to lose and are thus enable to withstand the intense pressure of bear markets.

This is the opposite of what I think is true so I'd love to see a citation for this claim.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#466

Post by arbol »

lottin wrote: post #325
Graffur wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the fundamental flaws you're talking about? (I assume throughput but I'll wait for your reply). What do you mean by saying people fell for "this"? I assume you mean it's a scam but I will wait for your reply.

> What are the fundamental flaws you're talking about? For a payments system, the fact that all transactions are final is pretty bad. I'd say this, by itself, makes the system unusable in the real world.

Payments don't need to be final. You could use a contract that implements arbitration logic.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#467

Post by mattgreenrocks »

pa7x1 wrote: post #367
idlewords wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a hash tree with a vape cloud around it, not quantum chromodynamics. I think most people on this technical forum understand it just fine.

The hard part is not the data structure behind it (Merkle tree) but the economics. An entirely new branch of economics has spun of it and it's far from trivial.

I can understand mapping out a new branch of a field is nontrivial. But I’d also hope that domain experts could explain it well enough to bring others to a basic level of understanding without saying, “it’s too hard.”

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#468

Post by shieVae4I »

harwoodleon wrote: post #211
meowkit wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the characterization that the primary use is a scam. That’s like saying the primary use of email is to receive ads and phishing mail.

Absolutely. And of course new sectors that are not established can seem like snake oil, simply because they are new industries. The internet has steamrollered many industries and fundamentally changed the way they work. Manufacturing, Music, Politics and now The final big boss, money. It will take another ten years for this industry to mature. But in amongst the sham and drudgery we have the first non-violent system…

> Manufacturing, Music, Politics and now The final big boss, money.

Isn't that a "they laughed at Galileo" argument?

They thought the Internet was snake oil. They thought Napster was snake oil. They thought BitTorrent was snake oil. ... but they also thought Pixelon was snake oil.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#469

Post by mandelken »

lottin wrote: post #293
joepie91_ wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're actually almost right. While Bitcoin was launched with lofty goals, it was pretty quickly overtaken by capitalist vultures who saw a low-regulation industry to extract money from people. Importantly though, it's not an either/or. Capitalism is problematic and cryptocurrency is problematic. Both can be true at the same time.

Bitcoin inventors were anarcho-capitalists, an ideology that promotes an extreme version of capitalism where there are no governments and corporations have unlimited power.

Could you provide some background (or links) to your claim (I thought the inventor(s) of Bitcoin were anonymous)? Thank you.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#470

Post by SubiculumCode »

megameter wrote: post #405
fleddr wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This huge silent majority that know it is a scam doesn't exist. Crypto is so large, complex and fast-moving that it takes thousands of hours to grasp. If I'd make a list of 100 questions regarding crypto, an exam so to speak, I am reasonably sure that this silent majority can't even answer 5% of the questions. Because they don't know crypto. At all.

Twitter crypto-haters essentially act as the "anti" to the crypto-bro "pro". Both repeat the same memes to each other in a self-reenforcing echo chamber. The underlying link is to political consensus. Leftist-socialist Twitter is eager to say that socialism is good because Bitcoin is bad. Trumpist-conservativist Twitter loves to say that Bitcoin is good because Joe Biden is bad. Nihilistic crypto permabulls are so hy…

Yet one would hope that if the discussion is on HN, then we'd rise above flamewars, and talk specifics, specific limitations, specific advantages, etc.
Post reply on HN