It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency • Hacker News Board

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#251

Post by joepie91_ » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:37 PM UTC

meowkit wrote: post #107

skrebbel wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't the tech be neat/super cool and primarily be used to run a scam? I mean bittorrent is neat tech as well but it's still primarily used for piracy. Doing a deep dive into how bittorrent works doesn't suddenly change the fact that 99.9% of torrents out there are violating somebody's intellectual property. All I'm saying is, there's lots of super neat tech out there that's primarily used for not-so-super-neat s…

I disagree with the characterization that the primary use is a scam. That’s like saying the primary use of email is to receive ads and phishing mail.

Considering that almost all legitimate users have been priced out of the market due to ever-increasing transaction fees and increasingly draconian regulations (often stricter than for non-cryptocurrency) and the resulting interoperability issues...

Yeah, I think it's safe to say that the primary use of cryptocurrency nowadays is as either casino chips or a money laundering mechanism. The economics no longer make any sense for anyone else.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#252

Post by idlewords » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:37 PM UTC

ggreer wrote: post #209

Tweets like those are why Pinboard is one of the few Twitter accounts I've blocked. On certain issues, the author loves to righteously sneer. It annoys the hell out of me because when he's not sneering, he can be a knowledgeable and clear thinker. He's like a glass of wine with a single fly in it. This behavior isn't just annoying to others; it's harmful to his own goals. If Maciej had hedged his bets and accepted Bi…

Let's be clear that if I had accepted Bitcoin payments in 2013, I would have then lost them all a year or two later when my exchange got hacked. That would make me an even more bitter person now.

I can't remember ever calling for a ban on cryptocurrency. If you're remembering something I'm not, then please correct me.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#253

Post by jakelazaroff » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:37 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #200

jakelazaroff wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be pretty alarmed if my untouched savings account grew by 6250% over five years.

Would you be alarmed if your untouched savings account debased by 50% or so in purchasing power since then?

Yes. That's the point. Bitcoin serves incredibly poorly as a savings account, along every conceivable axis.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#254

Post by dumbfounder » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:37 PM UTC

delaaxe wrote: post #161

dumbfounder wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think NFTs will transform the concept of ownership, and take power away from major corporations in the process. This is just one aspect of crypto that I think more than justifies its value. But there is a ton of hype and a ton of bad stuff going on yes, but that will be pushed to the background as it goes more mainstream. All people inside the industry think this is just the beginning and there is a lot of value to…

Ownership is information, not the underlying asset

Exactly, but it will be also about the underlying asset soon. This is what my company is working on: Darkblock.io

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#255

Post by pwillia7 » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:39 PM UTC

xpe wrote: post #110

john_alan wrote: post #13

Hacker news is holistically anti cryptocurrency. Which disappoints me. It has virtues. As someone who works in applied Cryptography and has also worked for the European Central Bank, we need “crypto”. 1) seigniorage is an abused privilege. Source: US debt ceiling at 27TRN. 2) permissionless money has value, I cannot send more than 5k a day using my bank. I can send any amount using crypto. I also don’t need two utili…

> Hacker news is holistically anti cryptocurrency. First, your use of "holistically" doesn't make sense to me. > ho·lis·ti·cal·ly | ˌhōˈlistik(ə)lē/ | > adverb > mainly Philosophy in a way that is characterized by comprehension of the parts of something as intimately interconnected and explicable only by reference to the whole: the damage caused by unethical behavior needs to be examined holistically. > • Medicine in…

Thanks -- I have used that word wrong too. I guess 'entirely' or 'completely' would be better

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#256

Post by CPLX » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:39 PM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #21

“But it’s like the early Internet!” shouted the Emperor’s coinholders. “The Internet wasn’t yet useful a mere, um, thirteen years after its invention either.” I can see how people in their twenties would fall for this argument because they can’t remember. The reality is that the internet was immediately extremely interesting (either useful or fun) for practically everyone who got access. Email and ftp alone were kill…

You could book plane tickets.

That, literally all by itself, would be enough for me to think building the internet was worth it.

You kids have no idea how much fun it was to go downtown to a travel agent just to find out how much it would cost to fly home from college for Christmas.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#257

Post by DSingularity » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:39 PM UTC

blintz wrote: post #154

I think this actually overstates the value of cryptocurrencies. The value of say, Bitcoin, isn't even connected to its value as a method of money laundering or extortion through ransomware. However morally objectionable these are, they do have economic value - it's just that value is not connected to the price of any cryptocurrency. Rather, the whole thing is an extended, worldwide pump-and-dump; speculation is drivi…

It’s the combination of strong network effects and artificial scarcity driving the price action. You buy Bitcoin cause something about it really resonated with you. Price goes up and you feel validated. You go and naturally — out of benevolent intentions — tell your closes people so they don’t miss out.

The mistake of cryptocurrency is discounting the potential for price manipulation. Earl adopters understood cornered these markets immediately. Now we are in never ending cycles of hype, markup, dump, accumulate, hype, markup, distribute, and accumulate over years. These cycles are continuously producing winners and losers and the losers are generally those who have more to lose and are thus enable to withstand the intense pressure of bear markets.

I love Bitcoin and Ethereum and all the potential freedom that they represent. At the same time - enough. These markets need regulation. We need to know who owns these coins. We need to see their selling patterns so we can see their manipulation.

Unfortunately, the cynic in me knows that too many people are making too much money and are probably going to block regulation for a very long time.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#258

Post by joepie91_ » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:39 PM UTC

xXx_uwu_xXx wrote: post #146

skrebbel wrote: post #50

These two resonated with me: > A lot of intelligent observers look at cryptocurrency, see that it makes no sense, and reasonably infer that they must be missing something profound on the technical level. Tech culture has a nice tradition of not deriding new ideas, but we need to break it here and speak out > [non-tech people] don't see the huge silent majority of tech people who know it's a scam. That's on us It is o…

[flagged]

You're actually almost right. While Bitcoin was launched with lofty goals, it was pretty quickly overtaken by capitalist vultures who saw a low-regulation industry to extract money from people.

Importantly though, it's not an either/or. Capitalism is problematic and cryptocurrency is problematic. Both can be true at the same time.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#259

Post by lreeves » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:39 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #210

lreeves wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Second Life did this 3D virtual world stuff almost 20 years ago, and even managed to use real money with an exchange rate as well to do exactly the things you're saying are now new with crypto and blockchains. Also for your other points - the games in this space are universally unfun to play with hardly anyone actually playing them; I can pay normal money to commission artwork; and I can use a zillion platforms that…

They did, but they were an insular community as a result. NFTs allow for a common open standard to be interoperable between games. That helps create an economy where, for example, you can buy a digital artwork at a Christie's auction and display it in Decentraland and have it be verifiably authentic. Second Life was awesome! This Metaverse trend is pushing that concept much, much further and it's giving ownership and…

I don't think any of that matters at all to people who enjoy the games or virtual worlds. I understand your point, I just disagree that it will matter in any way.

>you can buy a digital artwork at a Christie's auction and display it in Decentraland and have it be verifiably authentic

I can't imagine anyone would give a shit about someone's virtual art being "authentic" for whatever meaning of authentic NFTs pretend to claim. This is basically receipt porn at this point. Truly we're talking about bragging about wealth, one of the shittiest traits a person can have.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#260

Post by morelisp » Sun, May 30, 2021, 9:40 PM UTC

crummy wrote: post #189

meowkit wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the characterization that the primary use is a scam. That’s like saying the primary use of email is to receive ads and phishing mail.

Are there numbers on what the primary uses of cryptocurrency are? I would guess remittances, purchasing illegal things, purchasing legal things, and ransomware - but I'm not sure in what order.

I am not sure remittance counts as a "use", especially if it is only useful for remitting money because it is also actually "used" for settling ransomware payouts or buying cocaine.