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A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer

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Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer

#51
post #47
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I pick up a maths book, I read all these symbols that have no explanation whatsoever - it's obviously self-indulgent wanking. I admit I don't actually read the book, though, I just open it. But I can tell the symbols aren't english, or any other language I learned before my mind closed, so I can tell it's dross.

Well name a philosophy book that is worth reading. Maths books don't claim to be anything but self-indulgent.

Well, meditations wouldn't be a bad place to start. And philosophers differ a lot in their views of teh significance of philosophy. I regard it as self-indulgent, but interesting to those so inclined. Like Mathematics, it's an a priori subject anyone can do from an armchair. Unlike Mathematics, it isn't that useful for science. But unlike mathematics, it will help you achieve understanding about the structure of how you ordinarily think about the world (if not the world itself).

You can construe the cogito as an argument:

P1 I think.

P2 If I think, then I exist

C1 I exist.

P1 and P2 are premises, C1 is derived.

The interesting point is that P1 is not arbitrary, in the sense that if one grasps it, then it is true.

That's a really interesting property for a claim to have - especially for a contingent claim to have (e.g. 2+2=4 is necessarily true, and so if one grasps it, trivially it is true, but that's not interesting in the same way).

Further, D thinks that if one grasps it, then one knows one grasps it, (and that it is true).

So for D we have a priori certain knowledge of a contingent claim.

If course, you can question 2, and some people have. Quine is one person to read on that.

Re 'what does it mean to exist' - what do you mean by that? Your criticism demonstrates some ignorance of Descartes, as Descartes makes substantive claims about the nature of his existence as revealed by the reasonining in Mediations. For example D would say he knows that he exists as a thinking subject - a substantive claim about his nature. He goes on to make lots of controversial claims about his nature (some of which get us to Cartesian Dualism).

Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer

#52
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What does it mean to exist? Again, philosophy does not seem to be interested." Seriously? A monumentally vast number of volumes have been written by philosophers on what it means to exist. I find this sort of academic partisanship bizarre. There are no rigid distinctions between philosophy and science. They are both attempts to gain knowledge and insight about the universe, and their methods largely overlap. It coul…

But they all start with the premise that they exist.

In the example you yourself gave of 'I think therefore I am', the claim following 'therefore' is a conclusion, not a premise. So no, Descartes didn't start with the premise that he existed.

Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer

#54
post #27
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

regarding n.2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity defines formally the concept of minimal encoding of a message

And as long as philosopher will refuse to dig a bit into mathematics or computer science for answers to questions they call "philosophical", I'll have a hard time being interested by philosophy.

Ahem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principia_Mathematica

Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer

#55
post #32
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will neuroethology answer normative questions?

It won't, it will show that there are no normative questions. (exaggerated on purpose, of course, but it's The Final Frontier - once we know how the brain works, we will have a real insight into the nature of morality and we will have 'proof' for the objective nature thereof - all this IMNSHO of course ;) )

Neurology and related sciences can help illuminate what our interests are, but cannot resolve the moral problem of what to do when those interests come into conflict. Science can tell me what kind of diet a child needs to grow into healthy adulthood, but it can’t tell me under what circumstances it would be moral to take money from the wealthy (or, heck, the middle class) in order to feed starving children.

Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer

#56
post #12

Only programmers that enjoy philosophy. Personally I feel the whole field is obsolete with the invention of neuroethology and similar.

A wise man (my advisor when I was doing my philosophy degree) once said something to the effect of: There are two great mistakes you can make in philosophy. One is deciding there is no ultimate answer. The other is deciding you've found it.

That's rather trite, especially considering it follows that standard wise-mystic pattern of "two statements which contradict each other." Someone wrote a comic about it but unfortunately I can't find it.

Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer

#57

Regarding why we dream, I've always thought that it's got something to do with exercising our right brain. We feed our left brain when we're awake, we feed our right brain when we're asleep ... can anyone confirm or deny this ?

During sleep both hemispheres show large scale inactivity. There's no different in activity between the two hemispheres. All of our brain needs sleep. Just because only one half of our brain is responsible for speech doesn't mean we don't use it when we're awake.

Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer

#58
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought, "I think, therefore I am" was an answer to the question, "how do I know what is real and what is not?" So, for example, we're all stuck in some virtual reality world and everything is fake, how would we know? How do we even know, for that matter, that we ourselves our real? Well, we're wondering about it, so therefore we ourselves are definitely real in some way, even if everything else is fake - "I think,…

I have studied maths, and I enjoy thinking logically. The difference is that while mathematical axioms are also arbitrary, they never claim to not be arbitrary. Therefore it seems more honest to me.

Mathematics axioms aren't arbitrary in the same way philosophical axioms aren't arbitrary. Mathematical axioms are chosen for many reasons, one of which is that they are useful.

Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer

#59
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As soon as philosophy gets to even a fraction of the use mathematics has, then maybe it will be worth looking to for answers.

I would rather people look to philosophy for answers to their intractable problems than religion.

> I would rather people look to philosophy for answers to their intractable problems than religion.

Religion ended slavery. (Yes, some religions advocated and supported slavery - they lost to the ones that didn't.)

What has philosophy done in that domain. (Is it poor form to point out that philosophy pretty much went Nazi during the 30s.)

Yes, philosophers produced logic et al.

Re: A Philosopher Every Programmer Should Know: Susanne K. Langer

#60
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they all start with the premise that they exist.

In the example you yourself gave of 'I think therefore I am', the claim following 'therefore' is a conclusion, not a premise. So no, Descartes didn't start with the premise that he existed.

He seems to assume that because he (what?) can think, he exists.

Either he has an implicit assumption about what it means to exist (which he never describes, and which is therefore useless to me), or his definition of exist is "can think", in which case the famous proof would be trivial and useless (it would boil down to "I exist therefore I exist").

I already see many people here don't understand what I mean, but this is the kind of thing that makes most philosophers useless to me.

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