Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

$30k is far beyond minimum wage in most of the world.

It wasn't that it was awkward, it was just very hard to reason from the number that corresponds to future profits in a complicated way down to current compensation in a principled way.

> It’s all about who has the better 2nd option

Bingo. Know your BATNA:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat...

The minimum you request should be a number that would actually make you happy and content to accept the job. The upper number should be a high ball that you yourself don't actually expect to get. It shouldn't be some outlandish number way outside of what someone in your field can attain. This gives the company room to bid for your expertise with other companies without having to worry too much about putting yourself in a position like the original poster. And yes, I kind of think of it as a game, but an important, open and transparent one. The range you put forth leaves room for interpretation and makes the company uncertain. If you say one minimum number and they want you, they will pay you that minimum number. If you give a range, it opens the door to the possibility that they will pay you more. The more that they like you and the more that they are worried you might accept a competing job offer the more likely they are to bid more.

There is lots of advice that says to avoid giving any number. Sure, you can try to do that, but in my experience it comes off as a more aggressive tactic that may leave a bad taste in their mouth. I'm not sure if anyone else recommends this strategy, but anecdotally it has worked well for me. You still need to do research on what your field pays and you need to understand how well you do whatever it is that you do.

edit: Over time, being assertive but not overly aggressive in salary negotiations will pay huge dividends. I've heard of far too many stories of timid engineers that accept 5% raises or salaries for new positions year after year. Each one of those small increases in salary puts you further and further behind the curve. Companies don't ask what the history of your pay raises are, just what you are currently paid. Getting more now, means getting a lot more later. Early in your career if you are good at what you do, you can be more aggressive than later because it does not impact the balance sheet of bidding companies much. I had a good 4 to 5 year stretch early in my career where I was making >50% more than I was the previous year. Switching companies usually meant bigger increases in pay, but not in all cases if you prove yourself to be a valuable asset. Doing what you do well is still extremely important and if you do it well enough, the ROI of hiring you far outpaces your salary and companies will gladly make that investment to hire you and to retain you by keeping you happy and productive.

The key to all negotiations is to avoid "you vs them". Don't engage in an arguement over money, ask "what would it take for you to justify paying me the extra"?

Your partner in the negotiation (note, partner not adversery) has a whole bunch of worries NOT connected to the dollar amount: will you fit in (will he look bad if you don't), will you leave too soon, will you phone it in, will you be reliable, will you refuse $X/hr (will he look bad if you don't AND will he look bad if he pays you more than that).

You're job is to find out what he is concerned about and then deal with those concerns. That allows him to pay you extra. You're working together on this.

In my second job in tech I had two issues: I wanted about 10% more cash and I wanted more time off.

I knew they had had issues with staff turnover. So I suggested delaying the higher pay and split it in two raises: one wasn't until I'd been there 6 months and the rest at 12 months. So I got a 20% raise, more than I actually wanted, just by dealing with their bigger concern.

I got the raises in writing of course.

For your case, what do you need to do to be worth the extra $/h? Presumably the CTO wants you to reach certain milestones so ask them to be specific, and tie things to that. Maybe if you had qualification Y he would feel happier justifying the higher rate. So if the company pays half you could do that in your spare time right?

The added advantage of this is that it makes it really hard to say no. He sees you as a reasonable person, willing to work with him, able to give as well as take etc. He doesn't want to look petty or uncooperative in front of whoever else is involved. So he will also make offers.

Don't expect to get everything you want or to get it immediately. You won't. But also remember you will regret not at least asking.

There are a bunch of "tricks" (really just tips eg "don't name a number first") you should Google but the overall mindset is much more important.