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Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

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Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#111

Post by akomtu »

busterarm wrote: post #16

I know not the advice you're looking for but this thread makes me sad. For those wages, even at what your initial ask, it's impossible to get good developers in the US unless there are extenuating circumstances (someone's first job, etc). This company thinks you are worth less just because of where you're from and not what skills you bring to the table. If they offter you something you will take, accept it, but keep…

What's wrong with that? An employee in a far away country can only offer his or her programming skills. A well-spoken presentable employee in the HQ, available on a quick notice, brings a lot more value to the table. It's not the knowledge of the C++ standard that makes the difference between 50k/year and 500k/year

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#112

Post by bradlys »

seattle_spring wrote: post #104
Mary-Jane wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, CTOs at startups often directly interview and hire technical candidates...

While I don't know about this specific person, more likely on HN "CTO" is just a self-appointed "fake it til you make it" title. The amount of times I've casually poked at a "CTO" profile here only to find them to be a recent bootcamp grad working at a company of 2 with no funding...

The fun part of this exercise is that some people on HN give their real name or a way to find out their real name like the commenter did. They’re part of a pretty small company as far as I can tell. Closer to 25 people.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#113

Post by Zvez »

Mary-Jane wrote: post #98
schoolornot wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re a CTO so I imagine you’re hiring mostly directors and VPs and it comes down to whether you like the candidate or not. At a lot of companies you just have to be noticeably better than everyone else because after 5+ employees interviewing 5+ candidates, most managers have had enough with the time the team has sunk into that process. As a candidate, if you can find out how long the role has been open, you can rea…

FYI, CTOs at startups often directly interview and hire technical candidates...

even in medium-sized companies cto often participates in hiring process for high-level engineers. Basically the rule is if you are hiring person you are gonna interact often, you want to evaluate him yourself

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#114

Post by bradlys »

BeetleB wrote: post #81
kaydub wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your question resonates a bit with the "Never Split the Difference" method of asking an open ended question immediately after receiving an offer. "Can you explain how you came to this number?" is similar to the "How am I supposed to do this?" kind of open ended question the author uses as an example. Happy you posted this, feel like an idiot that I've never thought of using that exact phrase lol.

> Your question resonates a bit with the "Never Split the Difference" method of asking an open ended question immediately after receiving an offer. "Can you explain how you came to this number?" While the general advice of open ended questions is sound, this question rarely works with companies. They'll simply respond with a vague answer. "We did market research and determined that this is a competitive rate for your…

This is almost exactly what I got as well. Where do all the recruiters learn the things they say? It’s clear that they’re all learning the exact same material. Very poorly too... The ones who don’t go by the script are usually the ones I have the best experiences with and end up joining - ironic I guess. Maybe they’re just more seamless with the script than the others I’ve worked with. ;)

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#115

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

BeetleB wrote: post #81
kaydub wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your question resonates a bit with the "Never Split the Difference" method of asking an open ended question immediately after receiving an offer. "Can you explain how you came to this number?" is similar to the "How am I supposed to do this?" kind of open ended question the author uses as an example. Happy you posted this, feel like an idiot that I've never thought of using that exact phrase lol.

> Your question resonates a bit with the "Never Split the Difference" method of asking an open ended question immediately after receiving an offer. "Can you explain how you came to this number?" While the general advice of open ended questions is sound, this question rarely works with companies. They'll simply respond with a vague answer. "We did market research and determined that this is a competitive rate for your…

This. I have recently went through this rather annoying exercise. Received offer was noticeably lower than what I expected for average for the region. I responded saying that what the job entails is worth more based on publicly available information and that does not account for my experience/certs/actual knowledge of how this shit works. They relented, but I learned through the grapevine later that they were unhappy about it, because they had internal data showing otherwise.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#116

Post by SergeAx »

ErrantX wrote: post #34
totalZero wrote: post #5

I would try to gently put them on the back foot when they offer a wage. When you receive the offer, you should comment on the differential between expected and offered wage, even if you intend to accept. For example, you might say with a gently puzzled tone, "this is lower than what I would ideally be earning, based on my experience and capabilities. Can you explain how you came to this number?" You may be able to pu…

As an add-on to this; whatever they offer first is likely below what they are willing to pay. So even if they do offer the 30 you'd be happy with, still negotiate. The outcome can only be happier for you.

On the contrary: on today's candidate market company is interested to give the best offer it can afford, to close the position with suitable engineer.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#117

Post by joshgachnang »

mcnamaratw wrote: post #110
westoque wrote: post #65

Disclaimer, I'm a CTO. Here's how I evaluate this if I was evaluating you: 1. I already have a salary budget already allocated for this role based on industry average for position and location (but location _could_ be irrelevant depending on skill mostly). 2. I look at your skillset and put you at the bucket for the position where you are at: low-med-high 3. I make my offer based on my evaluation. 4. If you are "wort…

I'm curious, what industry is offering roughly minimum wage (30k) to programmers in the US?

FWIW, that's double the federal minimum wage. I'm mostly pointing out how absolutely absurd our minimum wage is.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#118

Post by subhro »

Here is my take.

1. If what you ask for was completely out of budget, they would not have spent time interviewing you.

2. If you are happy with $30 but still quoted $40, and now you accept $30, you are opening a can of worms. It means, you CAN and WILL be pushed around financially as long as you are in the company.

3. If you have faith in your skills, walk away. You will always find another company willing to pay you the money you ask for, as long as it is realistic.

If I was in your place, I would have walked away if it was a penny under $40.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#119

Post by andi999 »

mcnamaratw wrote: post #110
westoque wrote: post #65

Disclaimer, I'm a CTO. Here's how I evaluate this if I was evaluating you: 1. I already have a salary budget already allocated for this role based on industry average for position and location (but location _could_ be irrelevant depending on skill mostly). 2. I look at your skillset and put you at the bucket for the position where you are at: low-med-high 3. I make my offer based on my evaluation. 4. If you are "wort…

I'm curious, what industry is offering roughly minimum wage (30k) to programmers in the US?

Gaming? (at least here)

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#120

Post by thisismyswamp »

If you can't walk out of the deal, you're not negotiating a salary - but rather the terms of your servitude.

So the first step is to get into a position where you can negotiate.

Once you're there, ask for a number that would make you excited to go to work. This means higher pay the more boring a job is to you.

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