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Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

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Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#81

Post by BeetleB »

kaydub wrote: post #14
totalZero wrote: post #5

I would try to gently put them on the back foot when they offer a wage. When you receive the offer, you should comment on the differential between expected and offered wage, even if you intend to accept. For example, you might say with a gently puzzled tone, "this is lower than what I would ideally be earning, based on my experience and capabilities. Can you explain how you came to this number?" You may be able to pu…

Your question resonates a bit with the "Never Split the Difference" method of asking an open ended question immediately after receiving an offer. "Can you explain how you came to this number?" is similar to the "How am I supposed to do this?" kind of open ended question the author uses as an example. Happy you posted this, feel like an idiot that I've never thought of using that exact phrase lol.

> Your question resonates a bit with the "Never Split the Difference" method of asking an open ended question immediately after receiving an offer. "Can you explain how you came to this number?"

While the general advice of open ended questions is sound, this question rarely works with companies. They'll simply respond with a vague answer.

"We did market research and determined that this is a competitive rate for your skills."

You have to counter that showing actual market data that disagrees with them.

I'm a but surprised no one mentioned the other "trick" in NSTD: Politely insist on a fringe benefit that they cannot provide (e.g. N weeks of vacation). This will make them more likely to increase the compensation to counter the benefit they cannot give you.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#82

Post by codingdave »

misiti3780 wrote: post #25

When negotiating salary, always throw the first figure, and make it higher than you expect. It's called anchoring (read about it in Thinking Fast and Slow). It is a lot easier to come down to 120->100/hr then it is to come up from 50->100/hr. This can be applied to selling/buying a home and a lot of other things.

That is exactly why you never throw the first figure. If you throw out 120, and they expected to pay 200, you just lost out big time.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#83

Post by TylerLives »

bostonsre wrote: post #80

I normally go with a range, not a specific number. I would be happy if I made between x and y. This allows you to set the actual minimum and give a higher max than you expect. Normally, they will pick a number in between.

I'm confused. Why wouldn't they pay you the minimum you requested. Why would you put an upper limit to your salary? Is this some strange game people play?

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#84

Post by BeetleB »

busterarm wrote: post #26
polskibus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the rich expect price of goods and services from poorer countries to be lower than in their own country. This is standard, not just in IT, but also in clothes, manufacturing, etc. It's capitalism at its finest.

> This is standard... That's what people tell themselves to justify their exploitation. I am in the business of providing value. That's what you pay me for and it's commensurate with the amount of value that I can provide. Your recruiting costs also don't get any cheaper just because I'm not in the same location as you. If you're just looking at a calculation of how many asses can you get into seats for as low an amo…

Everything you say is true but provides no actual tactic to get the employer to offer a higher pay.

> I am in the business of providing value. That's what you pay me for and it's commensurate with the amount of value that I can provide.

"I can get the same value as you provide from someone else in your city/country for cheaper than you ask for."

When you go shop for products, will you pay more for a product made in an expensive country despite it having no advantage over the one made in a cheap country? (Assuming no sweat shops, etc are involved).

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#85

Post by gooeykabuki »

In any negotiation, your best bet is having leverage. In this scenario that would be other offers at the rate you would like or other benefits/flexibility.

In terms of framing, instead of saying you're in S. Asia and $30/hr is a big deal, you could figure out a rough $ value of your work to the company. In this case it's clearly more than $30, but is it $100 or $300 or $500? Having that clarity in your mind and articulating it to potential clients is going to be super helpful in the future, and change how you see yourself and sell yourself to clients.

Finally, you may want to invest in building your negotiating experience. I would start with the Appendix: Negotiating one sheet and ideally read and practice what's mentioned in Never Split the Difference: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08W57YLHR/.

Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#86

Post by gkoberger »

TylerLives wrote: post #83
bostonsre wrote: post #80

I normally go with a range, not a specific number. I would be happy if I made between x and y. This allows you to set the actual minimum and give a higher max than you expect. Normally, they will pick a number in between.

I'm confused. Why wouldn't they pay you the minimum you requested. Why would you put an upper limit to your salary? Is this some strange game people play?

I disagree with the above advice (as an employee, you should never ever state the number first), however I think the assumption behind this advice would be that you the company believes it's competing against other companies for you. So, they wouldn't do the lowest because they want to outbid the competition, and the higher number acts as an anchor.

But again, as a candidate, never say the number first.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#87

Post by spaetzleesser »

When people start whining about your salary expectations the first thing to do is to make them state their expectations. If they don’t give you a number that means they want to bully you by making you feel insecure. This is a disrespectful tactic and it’s almost guaranteed that working there will be an unhappy experience.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#88

Post by akvadrako »

croisillon wrote: post #32
misiti3780 wrote: post #25

When negotiating salary, always throw the first figure, and make it higher than you expect. It's called anchoring (read about it in Thinking Fast and Slow). It is a lot easier to come down to 120->100/hr then it is to come up from 50->100/hr. This can be applied to selling/buying a home and a lot of other things.

i understand the psychology behind it but it's also a bit dangerous: where i work (europe) we don't even engage when the candidates claim a much higher rate than what we would agree on

Right, it should be higher than you expect but it shouldn't be too high. If you expect €100 and ask for 20% more it should be safe if the company is willing to pay €80. If they aren't it's probably too much of a mismatch in expectations to make everybody happy.

But a candidate can only do this well if they know the market to within 20%, which might take a fair bit of research and asking around.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#89

Post by quickthrower2 »

drstewart wrote: post #74
polskibus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the rich expect price of goods and services from poorer countries to be lower than in their own country. This is standard, not just in IT, but also in clothes, manufacturing, etc. It's capitalism at its finest.

>the rich expect price of goods and services from poorer countries to be lower than in their own country So the poor expect what? Can you tell me what you think a poor person from West Virginia expects the cost of goods and services in Mexico to be?

Sounds like you have an interesting point but it might be too subtle for me. Can you rephrase?

I take it that the “poor person” benefits from cheap imports as a consumer but might at the same time they might be poor because they can’t get a job, because so much industry had been outsourced to other countries.

I have spoken to homeless people and cost of housing seems to be the big factor not cost of cotton pants or food. Cost of housing is not really related to imports.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#90

Post by mathattack »

It’s all about who has the better 2nd option. How long will it take them to find someone else like you at the rate they want to pay? How long will it take you to find the pay you want somewhere else?

The best thing you can do is find another alternative at the rate you want. Then you can say, “I want to work for you. You are my first choice. Just please match my other offer.”

The other offer shows you are coming from a position of strength, and validated your market price.

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