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Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

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Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#371
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For expensive stuff I almost never go with Amazon now: too many counterfeit / fly by night sellers. For "prosumer" items a store that serves professionals is likely to watch their suppliers very carefully and have customer-friendly policies when things hit a snag. For cameras and optics (and flash sticks) B&H is my go-to place. My 2c.

Same. After getting clearly-open-box (used? counterfeit? returned?) Makita batteries on Amazon I only buy tools from Home Depot, only buy camera equipment from B&H, etc. No more pricey tools or electronics from Amazon, or food for that matter (years ago, bought box of protein bars, came expired!)

The rule in our house is to not order anything that goes in or on our bodies from Amazon.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#372
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valid question. I was switching bank accounts at that time, so it's possible the card was not expired but linked to an account that did not exist anymore. Might also have been the account itself and not the card that was listed (Lastschriftverfahren, where they take money directly from the account). I'm fuzzy about the details, not really because it was particularly long ago (~2 years), but because it was confusing b…

This has happened to me. In some circumstances banks will still honour a charge even though the card is expired. You'll have to ask the banks why. In my case it wasn't a problem, but technically it shouldn't happen and it's strange that it did.

That actually could have been a problem. If the bank had accepted the charge, the fee for that would have been high, as far as I read when closing the account. This way - by Amazon just getting a bounce - my annoyment was just about the unreasonableness of the fee (to pay 3x3€ instead of 1x3€ just because Amazon decided to split the order), if the bank would have charged me instead it could have become a money problem.

That added to my concern with Amazon just using the wrong bank account, and that old account occuring again and again in my profile. Even if I wanted to order something at Amazon it would be too risky now.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#373

Like most people, I've ordered a lot of packages (hundreds?) on Amazon and almost never had a problem. In the rare case of a problem, Amazon would instantly refund me. But almost all those orders are under $1000. Everything changes when you have a problem with an expensive order. Amazon has a price threshold where the support system is different and the normal CS people are powerless. During lockdown, I ordered a Son…

How about bhphotovideo?

I have bought various electronics and camera accessories from B&H with no issues (related to B&H).

However, I buy all my new camera bodies and lenses direct from the manufacturer. I have found the price to be identical (or nearly so) to B&H, shipping to often be free and from time to time, without a local tax. If Nikon, Sigma, etc are selling as 'new' what are returns/refurbs then there is no hope in the system at all.

edit: grammar

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For returns you have to print a barcode and put it in the box. You don't get your refund until they physically scan the code in the box. Maybe it's not standard everywhere, but this process has been around for some years now. If the package never gets to the return center, no refund would be processed…

I’ve never been asked to print a barcode and put it in the box. I just returned a $300 item last week, and all they wanted me to do was ship it back. This is also true for Amazon business purchases. I have returned items around $600 and have never been asked to put a code in the box. But I’ve never returned anything over $1,000.

Same. I return stuff frequently and they stopped the barcode-in-the-box practice a couple of years (at least) ago.

In the USA FWIW. And no super expensive stuff.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#375
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't "want a monopoly." But they do want to order things in a way that is by no means a "minor convenience." Just going back to when Amazon was getting started, finding a book that wasn't in stock at your local store was a massive hassle and could take months. Today, not spending an hour running errands is not really a minor convenience. Again, I'm good with there being more competition--and, in fact, I order…

> finding a book that wasn't in stock at your local store was a massive hassle and could take months. Or you could just ask your local store to order it for you and you would have it in a week. It's not like this was an unusual situation.

I would be fine ordering from a local store and waiting but not if they are going to charge me full price as if they had to keep stock on the shelves.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#376
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s rather nice to buy unusual CDs and FLAC them. I like to do it from time to time.

Or vinyl albums, adds an extra dimension to listening to music.

Absolutely. Bought Bowie’s Blackstar on vinyl. Just seemed to fit somehow.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#377
post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, kind of. So Steam and Etsy themselves trend toward some amount of centralization, but in the case of Stream for example you have Playstation, Microsoft's platform, Stadia (soon to be cancelled I'm sure), Switch, Epic game store, iOS, and others. They aren't all exactly 1-1 comparable but I think that's ok. Frankly, you can get games from a lot of sources. You might say you can't get an indy title from one of th…

People clearly differ. Steam and Etsy are actually two companies that, if I were unable to use them starting tomorrow, that would basically have zero impact on my life. Whereas, although I do order from a variety of online retailers, going cold turkey on Amazon would be a fairly significant inconvenience for me--although some seem not to use them much.

Right but you wouldn't be able to make the claim that the market is centralized based on these factors.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#378

Like most people, I've ordered a lot of packages (hundreds?) on Amazon and almost never had a problem. In the rare case of a problem, Amazon would instantly refund me. But almost all those orders are under $1000. Everything changes when you have a problem with an expensive order. Amazon has a price threshold where the support system is different and the normal CS people are powerless. During lockdown, I ordered a Son…

I'm afraid of being downvoted, but the algorithm for an Amazon return looks something like:

  Your LTV = Forecasting total revenue
             from your transactions so far
  Revenue  = The sum of your past
             transactions
  Refund?  = LTV - Revenue - Refund Cost > 0
This is a much simpler, much more logical model. It appears everywhere, like with credit card disputes or when you get service discounts to not leave. Because when you don't get the refund for a $7,000 item, the assumption is you will "die" - quit using the service, stop buying, whatever - and your LTV - revenue is now zero.

What is frustrating to people is: it doesn't matter what happened to the package. You feel like you're this good person pursuing this great justice, but the simple facts are it doesn't matter what actually occurred. This is coming from someone who had two $3,500 computer deliveries stolen, probably because they had RTX 3080 written on them, but like, Amazon didn't care, it just refunded me. I didn't have to provide evidence or explain anything. Because my LTV was really high. Same with getting stuff refunded on my credit card. They simply did not care, and it was thousands of dollars of stuff where, obviously I was in the wrong, you can't just refund like airfare and such, but I asked for it and I got it because LTV.

Is this just? Like how else could it work? They investigate everything, spending more money than the cost of the refund? They would just not provide refunds, as was the case historically in e-commerce! And it's not Amazon, it's everyone. Indeed, the real innovation here isn't the strategy, it's that LTV forecasting has gotten really accurate. Otherwise I feel like these threads devolve into, people who don't know anything complain about stuff they keep using, and nobody critically looks into what's really going on.

There's an emotional desire, ironically, for this slow, legalistic, argumentative, plaintiff versus defense world. You know, when it suits you. The algorithmic approach, as soon as you open that Pandora's box, well of course it optimizes all that crap away - the LTV model of "justice" here is, in my opinion, a lot lot better.

It's just so inscrutable to a lay person, such a baffling reorganization of at least two decades of conditioning, I can see how the reaction is, "Oh my god, who is this blowhard, downvote." All I'm trying to do is share the facts of how remedies really work when you interact with giant, growing, successful companies.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#379

I do not trust Amazon to ship anything safely and securely anymore. Almost everything I receive is damaged, late, or mis-delivered. Books are especially abused somewhere in Amazon’s fulfillment. (They’re always bent, creased, or dirty.) Items that are supposed to be 1-day shipping typically take >=3, and Amazon’s tracking mostly says “oops! it’ll come trust us”. (Not verbatim, obviously.) Amazon’s return process is b…

My experience is that books are mostly still OK (US based) but the frequency of getting a new book that is slightly damaged has increased significantly. Even books that are shrink wrapped by the publisher sometimes come with corner or other damage (which may or may not have happened once in Amazon's hands, but I should not have to tolerate).

What I can say with certainty is that the attention to shipping the books has plummeted compared to the early years of Amazon. Back then they would put the book(s) on a piece of cardboard and shrink wrap that and then put some of the bubble stuff in the box.

Now you are lucky if they even put any filler in the box and best hope its not a rainy day and delivery leaves the package outside your door as boxes are flimsier and not always sealed tightly.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would never buy anything expensive from Amazon, the customer service is not adequate when things go wrong. I even stopped buying CD's from them as they would almost always arrived with cracked/broken cases. Specialist sellers, e.g. Prestomusic, actually wrap and pack them properly (and often have much better websites for buying music).

Are you still buying CDs?

Yes I still do and I FLAC them. I've been collecting CD's for 35 years, so it's difficult to stop. I am sometimes envious of the high-res downloads, but whenever I hear digital clipping in the 16-bit CD version, the clipping has always been present in the 24-bit version too.
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