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Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

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Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#31

Post by balfirevic »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #12

General tip when negotiating: never ask more than 50% of what the other party had in mind before you talked. Asking too much is a rookie mistake, you can quickly look like a clown if you do. Do your homework, you can't negotiate blindly, you need to understand the market and the current trends.

> Asking too much is a rookie mistake, you can quickly look like a clown if you do.

It is crucial to realize that exactly zero fucks should be given about this, outside of general desire to get that particular job.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#32

Post by croisillon »

misiti3780 wrote: post #25

When negotiating salary, always throw the first figure, and make it higher than you expect. It's called anchoring (read about it in Thinking Fast and Slow). It is a lot easier to come down to 120->100/hr then it is to come up from 50->100/hr. This can be applied to selling/buying a home and a lot of other things.

i understand the psychology behind it but it's also a bit dangerous: where i work (europe) we don't even engage when the candidates claim a much higher rate than what we would agree on

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#33

Post by mlac »

No one here is mentioning this, and you can only say it if you’re truly good and this is the truth: “I believe I will bring much more than $40 an hour in value to the company, so this will be a good opportunity for both of us.”

Yeah, they may be negotiating with other people, but if you are the best candidate then it would be stupid to save one or two dollars an hour to go with someone who is less well suited for the job. Then they hire the wrong person, they’ve now wasted 3 months of wages and were set back by 3 months, and will need to hire someone again, and you may not be available then.

They may have hard caps, and if they do, they may say “look, the most we can do for this job is $35 an hour”. Take it if you’re happy with it, and don’t mention salary again - put up work that justifies your wage.

People need to frame the conversation in what value you bring to the company, not what you’re costing the company to be employed. If you weren’t bringing in greater value to the company than your cost, you would be fired. How much of that added value that you can take home is what is determined through negotiation.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#34

Post by ErrantX »

totalZero wrote: post #5

I would try to gently put them on the back foot when they offer a wage. When you receive the offer, you should comment on the differential between expected and offered wage, even if you intend to accept. For example, you might say with a gently puzzled tone, "this is lower than what I would ideally be earning, based on my experience and capabilities. Can you explain how you came to this number?" You may be able to pu…

As an add-on to this; whatever they offer first is likely below what they are willing to pay.

So even if they do offer the 30 you'd be happy with, still negotiate. The outcome can only be happier for you.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#35

Post by tl »

gonehome wrote: post #3

This is the best single source of information on the topic: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ I’d just read through that.

Literally opened thread to also post this.

Summary (for OP or anyone else reading): assuming you bring a useful skillset and are likely to actually argue over $30/hr or $40/hr rates, you should charge more.

Do not assume $50/hr is off the table, if you bring that much value.

Do not assume $100/hr is off the table, if you bring that much value.

Do not assume $150/hr is off the table, if you bring that much value.

Potential employers care about what value you bring, and what compensation they can talk you into. Nothing else matters.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#36

Post by learnstats2 »

tboyd47 wrote: post #19

You yourself said you pitch too high deliberately in the start, expecting some haggling. If $30 an hour pleases you, then don't mess it up by getting greedy. If there are other issues with the job that you haven't told us about, bring those issues up and perhaps they will go higher. The way negotiation works is by joining people with different expectations. It's not a contest or a battle of wits you have to "win." Fo…

Agree - there's nothing that stops you from asking for more. Even if you don't get it now, it sends a signal that you will expect more $ later.

But, if you are really satisfied with $30ph (if you don't have a better offer to fall back on), you probably won't get (much) more. Your weak negotiating position will inevitably shine through.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#37

Post by gmanis »

Can I give you a honest opinion since I was in a similar situation some time ago? Just take the $30-35 whatever offer they give and do the best work you can.

In the long run, if you’re good, they will come around and you can get a better deserved rate.

Having said that, $30 is a great hourly rate for South Asia (I’m from there), and will mean a lot of quick financial buffer and it helps stress wise.

We aren’t in US and it’s better to accept our reality. If the work culture isn’t what you are happy with, you can always use this experience and interview again in 6 months.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#38

Post by Ozzie_osman »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #22

> The question is, when they offer me with a lower rate how should I deal with the situation so that I don't loose the position and get away with the best deal? There are no guarantees in negotiation. Projecting confidence and being willing to walk away from a lowball offer will help you negotiate. If you give the impression that you have no other options and that you will be taking the job even at the lower price, t…

Yea! The best way to negotiate is to have leverage. You can fake leverage, of course, but that's where the risk of losing the deal materializes. So rather than fake leverage, create it. Get other job offers.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#39

Post by dopidopHN »

gonehome wrote: post #3

This is the best single source of information on the topic: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ I’d just read through that.

This is a really good read. I’m commenting here so other folks follow that link.

Boy did I got fucked a few time at hire. I think it’s better now ? Who knows. Probably still getting fucked.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#40

Post by PragmaticPulp »

busterarm wrote: post #16

I know not the advice you're looking for but this thread makes me sad. For those wages, even at what your initial ask, it's impossible to get good developers in the US unless there are extenuating circumstances (someone's first job, etc). This company thinks you are worth less just because of where you're from and not what skills you bring to the table. If they offter you something you will take, accept it, but keep…

The reality is that if a company is willing and able to pay local wages, they’re going to hire local workers.

Remote opportunities work because the wages are lower than local hires for the company, but higher than local opportunities for the employee. Negotiation happens in the middle ground between these two bounds.

If the OP receives an acceptable wage that is higher than what they could make locally (they suggested this was the case in their text) then it’s a stretch to say that this company is going to treat them poorly. It’s just not realistic to expect companies to outsource work to distant remote hires only to pay them the same amount that an easy local hire would ask.

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