Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

petapixel.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 647 posts

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#291

Post by formerly_proven »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #285
formerly_proven wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually surprised people buy expensive audio/video/photo equipment on Amazon, since usually their prices aren't good on those, and their packaging is very bad. That's okay for random consumer garbage, but I wouldn't order anything high-end from them.

I presume the “their” and “them” in this comment refer to third party sellers, which could be anyone. I would rather order from the brand directly, or Home Depot or Best Buy or any other established business that does not try to pawn me off as a customer to someone else.

Especially for audio/video/photo stuff there's a bunch of dealers just for that, which tend to be quite good (in terms of prices, packaging, customer services), and also specialized distributors ("sells small numbers to professionals"), that's why I'm surprised people go for Amazon.

Some examples:

Random camera: Amazon: 2000 €, any photo dealer: 1800 €

Random high-end lens: Amazon: 2500 €, photo dealer: 2000 €

Random microphone: Amazon: 275 €, A/V distributor: 220 €

Studio microphone: Amazon: , A/V distributor: 600 €

And that's before considering that Amazon is probably going to ship more slowly (even on prime) than most other "pro" dealers, and that Amazon is probably going to throw a box in a more or less empty parcel, while someone at a proper dealer will actually bother to package the stuff correctly.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#292

Post by chrisseaton »

nigerian1981 wrote: post #290
ageitgey wrote: post #215

Like most people, I've ordered a lot of packages (hundreds?) on Amazon and almost never had a problem. In the rare case of a problem, Amazon would instantly refund me. But almost all those orders are under $1000. Everything changes when you have a problem with an expensive order. Amazon has a price threshold where the support system is different and the normal CS people are powerless. During lockdown, I ordered a Son…

I’ve found my credit card company, American Express to be great for getting refunds in cases like this and always use my credit card for larger purchases.

A problem with this is that it’s a nuclear option. Companies you use it against may decline to trade with you again. That may be a problem or not.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#293

Post by gambiting »

ghaff wrote: post #287
gambiting wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm.....I don't see how living in an affluent community has anything to do with that - few years ago I lived in the dodgiest part of town and never had any issues with Amazon either. I'm guessing you have that view because Amazon in US leaves parcels on your doorstep? Literally never heard of that happening in the UK. If you're not in it goes back to the depot, maybe they'll leave it with your neighbour if you're luc…

I would find that horrible. In normal times, I'm most definitely often not at home on Saturday and Sunday. As it happens, I live in a relatively rural area but I absolutely expect deliveries to be left at my front door without me signing for them except for the very odd high value item. If I had to deal with drop-off/pickup arrangements for every order, I'd use Amazon a whole lot less.

You can request that in Amazon delivery settings if you have a safe location at home, but it's not the default. By default parcels go back to depot.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#294

Post by Waterluvian »

I don't know how we ever got to the point of accepting that shipping is some equal third party in the transaction.

Shipping is a subcontractor to the company that sold the product. It is 100% the responsibility of the company to make right.

Imagine if you bought a TV at a store and they said, "want us to bring it out to your car?" And they did. And it got destroyed in the parking lot. And the company said, "you'll have to take it up with the parking lot parcel company. They don't technically work for us."

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#295

Post by wayoutthere »

glandium wrote: post #86
marban wrote: post #44

I've placed approx. 15k orders with Amazon Germany in 20 years and have probably had less than 100 issues, mostly with FBA sellers. I get an answer from CS within 10 minutes and 1-day shipments are on time ~98%. Refunds are issued as soon as I drop the package in the return box. Call me a fan. The best experience is still Amazon JP but returns are a little more complicated (Even within Japan) — Obviously b/c you more…

Amazon JP got a little worse ever since they started having their own delivery, which is not great compared to Yamato or Sagawa, which they were using before (and are still using sometimes, it's not clear under what conditions). But the difference is almost at the level of nitpicking. When you're used to top-notch service, and you suddenly get a subpar experience, that's kind of disappointing.

This is pretty much the same as the US; except our postmaster just obliterated our mail service to try to rig an election so Amazon is actually better than them now.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#296

Post by wyattpeak »

rkk3 wrote: post #204
wyattpeak wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's an extremely generous assumption towards Amazon that all they did was fail to refund "in the first customer support call". I don't know about you, but I've never filed a police report because someone made me call twice to resolve something.

I am not a fan of Amazon. They sold (Amazon Choice, so they bought and then resold) me a chair that had a staple sticking out of one of the feet, that caused significant damage to my hardwood floors. Fuck them. At the same time, I think it is naive to expect a customer support rep in the Philippines to handle this sort of situation. They do not make 7K in a month. If they bought the empty box at a brick and motor sto…

Fair enough, I'm sorry to have implied otherwise.

I agree with you about the frontline rep, that's not the person I have a problem with. I don't expect a low-level customer support rep to be able to approve such a thing. I expect Amazon to, in the event that a rep can't handle a complaint, proactively solve it in a different way, not try to fob the claimant off.

It would be just as easy to, say, bump any refund claim over 1k to someone who is paid enough to make such a decision. Amazon have decided they don't want to. And I don't really think that's acceptable. Just look at the comments in this thread of people self-censoring to avoid getting on the wrong side of the algorithm.

This is a situation Amazon has engineered, because it's cheaper to run these things through automated systems, or only frontline workers. I'm not inclined to accept what I think is pretty bare minimum as good enough on account of their size. If anything, I think their size allows them to afford and amortize better systems than a small company.

Edit: cooled it a little

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#298

Post by aurizon »

atoav wrote: post #239
mft_ wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there are regions (or countries) which are worse? Amazon in Germany is also great, so far. I’m like you - I’ve ordered so many things from Amazon this last year or so (new circumstances plus pandemic lockdown) and literally not one problem of the sort described. I can think of two items out of hundreds which weren’t on time (one, Amazons’s logistics made it a whole day late, and one was the seller’s issue…

3 out of 5 books I ordered there were what a regular bookstore would have called a "Mängelexemplar": folded in pages, accidentally cut corners, missing pages

Those are books damaged in printing that the printer is supposed to destroy, some enterprising employee grabs them from the scrap to be recycled and Amazon stands ready. Publishers and authors lose the entire amount. I have seen books like this at weekend swap meets (flea markets) near major printing ecyclers where the recycler employee does the diversion when they see good books(to their eyes) in the scrap.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#299

Post by aristophenes »

gambiting wrote: post #66
reikonomusha wrote: post #3

I do not trust Amazon to ship anything safely and securely anymore. Almost everything I receive is damaged, late, or mis-delivered. Books are especially abused somewhere in Amazon’s fulfillment. (They’re always bent, creased, or dirty.) Items that are supposed to be 1-day shipping typically take >=3, and Amazon’s tracking mostly says “oops! it’ll come trust us”. (Not verbatim, obviously.) Amazon’s return process is b…

I'm genuinely surprised that people have such vastly different experiences with Amazon. I made 231 orders with them last year(lockdown....) And haven't had a problem with a single one. Couple times I wanted to return something they just refunded me without asking to send the item back. Everything arrives next day, always(here in UK anyway), and the customer support is stellar compared to literally anywhere else. Anyo…

It really is location dependent, since most of the problems are caused by the shipper. Amazon will use multiple shippers, and in some areas will use what ends up being people driving around in their personal cars to deliver packages. If you have unreliable shippers in your area, it’s hard to deal with Amazon when things go wrong. In one place I lived, Amazon would use the US Postal Service, UPS, and Fedex. I had no control over which. The local FedEx team was horrible, they never figured out how to deliver packages to my building. So they would pretend to deliver, say customer wasn’t home and no secure place to leave the package for 2-3 days, then stick a notice on the outside of the building somewhere that I could use to drive to the FedEx warehouse in the next town over to pick it up. Maybe it’s different now, but there was just no way to do anything about this.

Another location and I’d get these local people delivering packages in their personal cars and that was really hit or miss. Seems like anytime they were busy they just report that they tried to deliver but no one was home. They could steal whatever they wanted, it’s a matter of trust. How does Amazon know who is lying? Maybe I’m scamming them, maybe the shippers, maybe someone else is stealing packages off my doorstep.

There was just no way to choose a shipper or report problems with one. Don’t have any problems where I am now, so I don’t know if they’ve fixed that. They should be able to tell, statistically, if packages have more problems with one shipper over the other, but smart shippers who want to steal could probably game the system.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#300

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

Yeah, I had one of these, but at a much lower threshold.

I bought one of those blind spot mirrors for like $10. I received an envelope (think the old white and blue envelopes) that had nothing. Since the package was "delivered", the only option was to "return the items" but since I didn't have anything to return, there was nothing Amazon could do for me. It was almost funny.

Post reply on HN