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Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

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Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#251

Post by gambiting »

loldk wrote: post #82
gambiting wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely surprised that people have such vastly different experiences with Amazon. I made 231 orders with them last year(lockdown....) And haven't had a problem with a single one. Couple times I wanted to return something they just refunded me without asking to send the item back. Everything arrives next day, always(here in UK anyway), and the customer support is stellar compared to literally anywhere else. Anyo…

You must have a very secure delivery location, and I'm willing to bet that you probably live in a more affluent community, if what you're saying is even true. That and/or you're having stuff delivered to Amazon locations. Not to mention not everything is shipped from seller / manufacturer to you via Amazon.

Uhm.....I don't see how living in an affluent community has anything to do with that - few years ago I lived in the dodgiest part of town and never had any issues with Amazon either. I'm guessing you have that view because Amazon in US leaves parcels on your doorstep? Literally never heard of that happening in the UK. If you're not in it goes back to the depot, maybe they'll leave it with your neighbour if you're lucky. So....if you count my own front door as a "secure delivery location" then...yeah? Where else would it be delivered? I guess you could have it delivered to a locker, but if it goes back to the depot I just have it redelivered on Saturday or Sunday when I'm definitely at home.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#252

Post by Closi »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #175
Closi wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electronics is certainly more of an issue - Nobody is shipping empty boxes of toilet paper. The main issues you get are when returns are put back into stock but haven’t been sufficiently checked. I used to work for an online retailer who sold things like games consoles and the amount of return scams we got was absolutely shocking. If you sold a games console with a free game (usually a code inside the console) people…

Off topic but I have seen interesting labels that break destructively. If you could turn that into a ribbon, then any box could be wrapped in such a way any tampering is evident. If you could also print a QR code on top, then you have a per shipment tamper proof I suspect it exists but i am sure there is a long way between that and cost effective useage

You are right - there are definitely things that can be done (what you are describing used to be done on Xbox games for example).

The main thing is making sure that these things are ubiquitous, that there isn’t a workaround and that systems are in place to do the specific checks which are different for each item at every return point.

In the example with the Xbox games, not all games had the seal, or the same game SKU might sometimes have the seal and sometimes have a standard case. Then there was the workaround where people could lever the case open at the top and still take the game out.

The danger of seals is sometimes they can provide a false sense of security, but they probably do help when implemented well.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#253

Post by Closi »

amelius wrote: post #248
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but I have seen interesting labels that break destructively. If you could turn that into a ribbon, then any box could be wrapped in such a way any tampering is evident. If you could also print a QR code on top, then you have a per shipment tamper proof I suspect it exists but i am sure there is a long way between that and cost effective useage

Isn't it a basic consumer right to take items out of the packaging, try them, and then return them?

Absolutely.

The issue here is people returning it in a state where it is still sealed - as if an item is sealed it will go back into stock straight away and the retailer can’t open it up to check that it is in there.

If it’s opened you can still return it, but once that happens usually electronics have to be sent back to the manufacturer to refurbish/reset.

It’s not about stopping people returning items, it’s about making sure the correct returns channel is used and detecting fraud (which happens when people return the item pretending it’s unopened so it goes back into stock unchecked, but the item has been replaced with a brick).

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#254

Post by ageitgey »

yreg wrote: post #242
ageitgey wrote: post #215

Like most people, I've ordered a lot of packages (hundreds?) on Amazon and almost never had a problem. In the rare case of a problem, Amazon would instantly refund me. But almost all those orders are under $1000. Everything changes when you have a problem with an expensive order. Amazon has a price threshold where the support system is different and the normal CS people are powerless. During lockdown, I ordered a Son…

Didn't you dispute it at PayPal/your CC company/your bank? Or were you afraid of getting banned from Amazon?

In the end, it probably took 3-4 weeks to get my money back for a $5k 1-day delivery package that wasn't ever delivered. I would have gone the bank route next, but since Amazon did eventually give me my money back, it wasn't needed.

I'm sure the shipper was who lost/stole the package. But my point is that you can't take your great support experience with Amazon buying $50 sheets and expect that you get the same experience when they lose something expensive. For expensive or specialist items, you can often get the item faster and cheaper going to a different retailer despite how all your experience buying cheap stuff on Amazon tells you otherwise.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#255

Post by beezischillin »

I don’t live in a country where Amazon operates but I do live in the EU. I’ve had good experiences with them regarding refunds and getting items the courier firm messed up with. I once ordered some stuff to the UK to a friend who shipped it to me with alongside some stuff from other places. My wait time for the whole package was a month due to this and when it arrived I noticed that one of the items I ordered was missing. I contacted them and they offered me a refund. I wasn’t expecting that!

Another time DPD messed up my package and never delivered it, they just shipped it again and it I finally got it. The only nuisance was the wait time.

That being said my trust for Amazon is at an all time low due to their marketplace listings. The discoverability has gone awfully bad, I generally end up searching for stuff elsewhere, researching stuff on Google and if I find something I need that’s only available through Amazon, then I have to and dig deep to see if it’s okay.

They simply allow through all sorts of dubious items, knockoffs and scams that clearly just ship from China. Whenever I can, I just order straight from smaller, specialty shops that deliver abroad, instead. It’s not an Amazon-unique situation, however. A local giant online e-tailer started a marketplace and they pretty much instantly started having very similar issues.

I still dislike having to spend lots of extra time just to not to accidentally buy something else instead of what I wanted. Frustrating, to say the least!

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#256

Post by gpvos »

dalbasal wrote: post #117
suifbwish wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was a god I would never send anyone to hell to burn forever in fiery torment. For this situation I would be very very tempted to make an exception. Anyone who sets up an automated system designed specifically to hassle people for seeking recourse for being wronged, deserves every form of torture they get.

Hell would be full before you got very far. Intentionally or unintentionally, this is how most such systems work... even ostensibly noncommercial ones... at least to some extent. Business systems are a chain of events. Every event has x% chance of happening and leading to the next one. If the next event makes money, it's optimized up. If it costs money, it's optimised down. Efforts to pay unclaimed rebates are never…

You may be right, but this is the strongest indictment of business and capitalism that I've read in a long time.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#257

Post by carstenhag »

colonwqbang wrote: post #191
neiman wrote: post #168

I used to live for many years in a "bad" area of Berlin, where my packages were constantly disappearing, not arriving, taken by neighbors (who put an X as a signature), or left by the delivery people outside our building door. After a few such accidents, each of it super tiring on its own to get things reshipped or reimbursed (and often I failed), I decided all this modernity is not for me. Nowadays I rather buy what…

When I order stuff online, 95% of the time it goes to my local supermarket. They have a little post office desk. Then I just collect it the next time I go grocery shopping. They make you show ID when you sign for it, so it's never happened that it got stolen. I find this super convenient and it has to be less expensive for the delivery service too. I just can't understand why door to door delivery is the norm in some…

You can register at ups (even in Germany) and also get email similar to dhl's where you can have the package rerouted

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#258

Post by amelius »

Closi wrote: post #253
amelius wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a basic consumer right to take items out of the packaging, try them, and then return them?

Absolutely. The issue here is people returning it in a state where it is still sealed - as if an item is sealed it will go back into stock straight away and the retailer can’t open it up to check that it is in there. If it’s opened you can still return it, but once that happens usually electronics have to be sent back to the manufacturer to refurbish/reset. It’s not about stopping people returning items, it’s about m…

Right, I didn't get that. But how often is an item returned without the box being opened by the customer?

Also, how does Amazon prove that the brick they received came from the customer and not some employee?

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#259

Post by ghaff »

gambiting wrote: post #66
reikonomusha wrote: post #3

I do not trust Amazon to ship anything safely and securely anymore. Almost everything I receive is damaged, late, or mis-delivered. Books are especially abused somewhere in Amazon’s fulfillment. (They’re always bent, creased, or dirty.) Items that are supposed to be 1-day shipping typically take >=3, and Amazon’s tracking mostly says “oops! it’ll come trust us”. (Not verbatim, obviously.) Amazon’s return process is b…

I'm genuinely surprised that people have such vastly different experiences with Amazon. I made 231 orders with them last year(lockdown....) And haven't had a problem with a single one. Couple times I wanted to return something they just refunded me without asking to send the item back. Everything arrives next day, always(here in UK anyway), and the customer support is stellar compared to literally anywhere else. Anyo…

I don't know if I'm lucky and some other people are just unlucky. But I also sometimes suspect that some people buy things at prices that are "too good to be true" or that always go for the lowest price. (I admittedly also tend to go elsewhere for certain types of items. For example, I always buy my Apple stuff directly from Apple.)

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#260

Post by itsbits »

I was under impression that their return policy has some intelligence added. I mean how many items customer have returned/refunded, what are sellers saying about returned item kind of ML. After reading all the stories in comments, feel this is what Amazon should be prioritising. Already some local online stores are competing them across the globe.
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