“Computer science is not about computers” • Hacker News Board

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#131

Post by ldjb » Sun, May 30, 2021, 10:06 AM UTC

soegaard wrote: post #75

The beginning of this lecture (30 seconds in) by Harold Abelson (author of SICP - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs) explains why Computer Science is a terrible name here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J_xL4IGhJA&list=PLE18841CAB... Not sure about the year.

That lecture (from 2005) is how I first came across this idea of computer science not being about computers. It was interesting (though not massively surprising) to discover that similar arguments have been made for several decades earlier.

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#132

Post by sampo » Sun, May 30, 2021, 10:13 AM UTC

mxscho wrote: post #29

In Europe, "Computer Science" is translated with a word that is a mix of "information" and "mathematics". University course names are: > [...] informatique (French), Informatik (German), informatica (Italian, Dutch), informática (Spanish, Portuguese), informatika (Slavic languages and Hungarian) or pliroforiki (πληροφορική, which means informatics) in Greek. Similar words have also been adopted in the UK (as in the S…

> In Europe, "Computer Science" is translated with a word that is a mix of "information" and "mathematics".

I don't think the "ics" in Informatics comes from "mathematics". It is more general: Aesthetics, Economics, Genetics, Linguistics, Physics, Statistics. It just means "the study of".

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#133

Post by [deleted] » Sun, May 30, 2021, 10:20 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#134

Post by mongol » Sun, May 30, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

Maybe "computing science" would be more accurate

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#135

Post by jltsiren » Sun, May 30, 2021, 10:27 AM UTC

js8 wrote: post #73

My view is quite unconventional, but I believe, computer science is a branch of mathematics that deals with large but finite structures (so they need an algorithmic description). Compare with most of "legacy" mathematics, which studies countable structures (so the description can use arbitrary series). Of course, there are larger sets, but they mostly serve as a theater (just like countable infinity is just a theater…

Computer science research is mix of (at least) mathematical, engineering, and scientific traditions that varies by subfield. Among the subfields I'm most familiar with, theoretical algorithms are mostly mathematical, while algorithm engineering is closer to engineering. Data compression has both mathematical and engineering work, while bioinformatics is a mix of all three traditions.

It's not always clear what is computer science and what isn't. For example, you can find both mathematicians and computer scientists in theoretical computer science. In bioinformatics, you often see similar work from people with CS and life sciences backgrounds.

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#136

Post by danielscrubs » Sun, May 30, 2021, 10:27 AM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #78

jmartinpetersen wrote: post #70

Seeing as the Danish "CS" degree deliberately[1] wasn't named "Computer Science", but "Datalogi"[2] (which translates rather directly to "Datalogy"), and since it happened in the sixties, I somehow assumed this article would end up mentioning Peter Naur in some way. [1]: http://www.naur.com/comp/c4-3.html [2]: http://www.naur.com/comp/c4-4.html

We also now have an education the is more equivalent to a US computer science degree: Software Engineer. I think the US degrees are more focused on practicality than the Danish version. Basically the Danish universities will teach basic programming in one or two languages and the expect you to be smart enough to figure out the rest. It’s not that one education is better than the other, but given that I didn’t end up…

I'd expect "engineer" (ingeniør) to be a protected title in Denmark just like Sweden, which requires a math heavy university programme?

So the way to call yourself a software engineer without a math-education is to move to a country like US, making even the "Software Engineer"-title problematic.

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#137

Post by utkarsh181 » Sun, May 30, 2021, 10:29 AM UTC

vishnugupta wrote: post #90

benrbray wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me learning Haskell has been a great way to expose myself to things that were previously "unknown unknowns". I do a mix of coding, for intuition, and reading papers, for theoretical context. The papers written by SPJ et al in the 1990-2000s give a remarkably clear history of how certain functional programming concepts jumped the gap from CS theory to practical implementation in Haskell. Just as assembly gives as…

Seeing SPJ refreshed very fond memories for me :-). I accidentally stumbled onto Haskell in my masters course. On the first day at university I attended a trial class of functional programming[1] course and instantly liked the way professor taught. However, I didn't take the course then and forgot all about it. The next semester I took compilers course and approached that professor for my masters thesis. During a mee…

Thanks! this looks really good. The fact that you did your programming class in IIT Bombay further motivates to work hard for my "dreams".

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#138

Post by h8hawk » Sun, May 30, 2021, 10:32 AM UTC

antonvs wrote: post #102

thanatos519 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is good thinking and I am sad to hear that it is unconventional. And now I'll contradict the part of what you said about finite structures: At a theoretical level, the field deals with infinite structures, namely the Turing Machine tape and infinite time. We use finite Computing Machines to simulate a finite section of that tape in a finite time. Maybe we should call it Turing Machine Science, because we use com…

> Maybe we should call it Turing Machine Science Nope. Turing machines are arbitrary and rather unmathematical. The lambda calculus is a much better computational formalism, more mathematically grounded and oriented, with far more direct practical applications.

This by the way is the most arrogant comment I've seen on this site.

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#139

Post by felixfbecker » Sun, May 30, 2021, 10:39 AM UTC

In Germany the equivalent field and degree is called “Informatics” (Informatik). I always felt weird about telling Americans I studied “computer science” because it sounds so dumbed down. It’s like how a 6 year old would describe it to someone else: “my older brother studies the science with the computers!”

Re: “Computer science is not about computers”

#140

Post by lcuff » Sun, May 30, 2021, 10:39 AM UTC

The place I heard the quote is the opening statement by Hal Abelson in the course he co-taught with Gerald Sussman and is now part of MIT Open courseware. Not quite sure when it was taught, but the text SICP was written in 1985.... He goes on to say also the word Geometry derived from metron to measure and Gaia, the earth, and that Geometry was developed in Egypt to restore boundaries to land after the annual flooding of the Nile. But it's really the beginning of our efforts to formulate our concepts of space and time.