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ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

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Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#161

Post by mannerheim »

cookiengineer wrote: post #98
jimmaswell wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A visitor from TOR is extraordinarily more likely to be abusive. It makes total sense to put up extra barriers, which is still short of blocking TOR users altogether, which is also fair for webmasters who don't want to deal with it.

> A visitor from TOR is extraordinarily more likely to be abusive. It makes total sense to put up extra barriers, which is still short of blocking TOR users altogether, which is also fair for webmasters who don't want to deal with it. And why is that again? I want to understand that argument. In case of DDoS scenario: Well, too late, traffic already served and server already done the workload. In case of password bru…

What about the case of someone signing up for thousands of accounts?

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#162

Post by dmurray »

neltnerb wrote: post #93
cookiengineer wrote: post #2

Last week ProtonMail integrated Google's Recaptcha to their Login Page. As a project that advocates Privacy and Security, and was an immediate response to the Snowden Leaks, I find this kinda ironic that they now set the Google PREFs cookie for all of their users - while they still maintain the same marketing on their website. And well, I am looking for new options now, I guess.

As much as I appreciate this comment, it is weird that it floated to the very top when the article is about location tracking built into Android by Google. Protonmail might have issues, but the threat of some leaked information through javascript and/or cookies (hello google fonts!) can be attributed to literally every site that uses recaptcha whereas the article is talking about a much, much worse practice of tracki…

Agreed! Proton could do better, but conflating their privacy approach (or, say, Apple's or Mozilla's) with Google's is exactly what Google would want you to do. "See - everyone harvests your data, at least we tend to keep it in house".

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#163

Post by hedora »

vbezhenar wrote: post #104
amelius wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be the case that both ProtonMail and FastMail were frequently recommended on HN. So, how is FastMail doing in comparison?

I'm not entirely happy with fastmail. Too much of legitimate mail ends up in Spam. They even put aliexpress mails to spam, that kind of domain surely must be whitelisted. I'd prefer more spam in inbox, because right now I have to check spam every the time to ensure that nothing is lost.

Settings -> Filters and Rules -> Spam Protection -> Advanced settings -> Custom

Ikea mass marketing emails are ~5.5 for me, and essentially all of the “false positives” in my spambox. The real spam is all 20+.

It looks like fastmail defaults the threshold to 5. Try increasing it to slightly above the score your legitimate emails get.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#164

Post by loh »

aaravchen wrote: post #155
loh wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out TricepMail.com. I'm curious to see what HN thinks of it.

It looks interesting, it goes the functionality checkboxes, but given the thread here the target audience is likey interested in privacy and security. Tricepmail seems to have little to no information about security, and the privacy policy is basically GDPR compliance (specifically: we'll tell you what we collect personal info for) with the option to sell the data to third parties. Additionally, the apps appear to be…

Thanks for your feedback. I will touch on all your points.

TricepMail is designed specifically for privacy, and not only privacy for your data on TricepMail’s servers but for preventing others from tracking and selling your information as well. The privacy policy specifically states that there is no collection of your personal information. TricepMail is based out of Colorado, US, but considering moving to another country which might be better for privacy.

The UI is definitely very minimal, but that is on purpose by design. No need for a bunch of visual clutter when reading/sending email. Improvements can and will be made though, of course.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#165

Post by [deleted] »

rowanG077 wrote: post #158
protonmail wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously there could be a middle ground of allowing someone to deactivate 5 accounts per month or something. A improvement like this is indeed in our feature backlog, and something we hope to implement in the future.

Wow this response chain is so layed on thick with half answers and marketing speak. I guess you can now "hope" that I won't cancel my protonmail subscription.

[deleted]

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#166

Post by oblib »

habibur wrote: post #45
plank_time wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self hosting these days is almost impossible because most email providers like gmail and yahoo mail will automatically move your emails to spam. It’s all based on IP address and how reliable that IP address is. Self hosting guarantees that all your sent email will end up in spam folders.

Not necessarily. Had been self hosting for decades and I move the server every two years to a new IP mostly because of server/os refresh. Right now only hotmail bounces mail. Am using DO/Singapore. Other centers fare better.

Same here. I setup a new email server last month and most every big email service made it pretty easy to get whitelisted, but not Microsoft. They're a total pita to deal with. Google made it very easy.

My server is a "Mail-in-a-Box" running on a DigitalOcean VPS.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#167

Post by andrepd »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #119
cowpig wrote: post #47

When I started my company we chose to use Protonmail. My advice to anyone who wants secure email: don't use protonmail. The email search is completely useless. I don't understand how it can possibly be so difficult to do a substring search on a corpus and rank them in some kind of sane way. Searching for old emails based on content is an exercise in futility. After a few years of using an email service, search become…

That's what you get for making stupid decisions based on ideology instead of facts. Protonmail says it very clearly that all mail is encrypted on their servers. If you expect search functionality from them you don't get encryption. You bought into some random surveillance state propaganda. Google isn't interested in the mail of your random startup, they are happy expanding their cloud footprint. In return you get goo…

"There's nothing wrong with people reading your correspondence (and archiving it forever and running algorithms on it)! If you say othetwise you're blinded by ideology!"

Conform, citizen!

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#168

Post by caymanjim »

mannerheim wrote: post #69
nexuist wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they’re likely interested in tying accounts to real identities I don't think it means they're interested in tying accounts to a specific identity, just an identity, to prevent bots or bad actors from signing up for thousands of accounts. This is a necessary reality of being an email provider. If you do not police your outbound mail then other mail servers will block or auto-junk your users' messages. There is no wa…

Perhaps a way to solve it would be to accept a nominal fee of cryptocurrency. Even a one-time fee of e.g. $5 would probably put a damper in someone trying to sign up for thousands of accounts while preserving privacy for real users.

Alas this is a business-ending barrier. Despite its popularity, in the grand scheme of things, not many people have a crypto account. It's also only semi-anonymous, depending on how you fund it. It'd be nice if more businesses accepted crypto, but it isn't viable as a requirement or primary payment mechanism.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#169

Post by Mike86534 »

protonmail wrote: post #136
msh wrote: post #128

I don't know if the hn protonmail account is an official account or a fan account, but it seems quite unprofessional and really scares me off being a protonmail customer.

We apologize for that. It's a weekend and we are working on giving folks responses as quickly as possible. Therefore, the responses are more to the point than usual.

Don't worry. It's just a minority of princesses complaining. This "news" was a waste of time. Non issue.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#170

Post by minitech »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #119
cowpig wrote: post #47

When I started my company we chose to use Protonmail. My advice to anyone who wants secure email: don't use protonmail. The email search is completely useless. I don't understand how it can possibly be so difficult to do a substring search on a corpus and rank them in some kind of sane way. Searching for old emails based on content is an exercise in futility. After a few years of using an email service, search become…

That's what you get for making stupid decisions based on ideology instead of facts. Protonmail says it very clearly that all mail is encrypted on their servers. If you expect search functionality from them you don't get encryption. You bought into some random surveillance state propaganda. Google isn't interested in the mail of your random startup, they are happy expanding their cloud footprint. In return you get goo…

> If you expect search functionality from them you don't get encryption.

It’s not as if the client can’t maintain an encrypted index, they just haven’t implemented it.

Also, apart from all of the important advantages of encryption, there’s always the privacy angle compared to Gmail: Google uses mail to target ads and scrape purchases, which a lot of people don’t want.

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