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Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

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Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#151
post #53

This is one incident among many, but it has less to do with indigenous children as it does with any system wherein the accounting of "disconnected" children is left to that system. Tuam, County Galway ... eight hundred infants with missing graves. St Mary's Cemetery in Lanark, four hundred left in a single mass grave. In Germany, nuns pimping out orphans. The Sisters of Mercy scandal. I could go on. Bluntly put, when…

These children weren’t abandoned, they were forcefully taken from their families by the government. They were sent vast distances to these boarding schools to “kill the Indian in the child”, where they were often mistreated, sexually abused, and went missing ( murder/neglect/ abuse). So it is all the more egregious in this case. The government turned a blind eye to the Churches, and the Churches were doing God’s work…

Hunter-gatherer societies across the world have, historically, fared poorly when agricultural or pastoral societies have moved into their territory. Complete extermination (i.e. genocide) or complete assimilation is the rule, not the exception. Such genocides happened all over the world but have mostly passed out of living memory with the winners preferring not to be reminded of them. This didn't happen in Canada for several reasons.

Most native tribes, especially in the West, were not crushed militarily, as they were in the U.S.. The crown and most tribes signed treaties. While what was going on South of the border was, no doubt, instructive, it's to both sides' credit that they looked for a peaceful way to coexist. The terms of those treaties remain controversial today but, nonetheless, they put Canada's natives on fundamentally different footing than almost any other overrun hunter-gatherer societies in human history. They had an established, legal right to continue existing.

It's incredibly difficult for us, today, to understand the state of affairs that existed just after these treaties were signed. Native tribes were not peacefully co-existing, stagnant populations that had existed in the same spot for thousands of years. They moved around, bumped into each other, struggled to defend territories, had wars, raided each other. Raiding was so honoured and economically important in some tribe's cultures that even other native tribes did not want to be their neighbours. A big part of why so many tribes were eager to sign treaties with the Crown was that the Crown was promising security. They wouldn't have to continually fight other tribes to keep their sources of food secure. The Crown proved to be a less than completely secure food source themselves at first, but that's another discussion.

When we, today, talk about the desire of leaders such as John A Macdonald to "kill the Indian in the child", we find this atrocious. We respect diversity of religion and culture. However, at the time of John A Macdonald, native culture presented real problems. It was actually progressive for the time to think that natives could be as productive as any other Canadian citizens if they could be educated to adopt European economic pursuits and abandon cultural practices, such as raiding, that were wholly incompatible with the peace and order the Crown promised its citizens, native and European alike. There were those, at the time, who still espoused outright genocide. There remain, even today, places in the world where outright genocide is pursued actively.

The residential schools are a painful part of history that is still, very much, in raw living memory. However, we must look at the big picture too. In almost any other place and time in history, native cultures would already be utterly extirpated. They still exist and thrive in Canada and there is every reason to hope that they will continue to do so. How many other times in history have cultures so alien to each other managed to coexist? There remain many problems to tackle, but hope for the future is well justified based on Canada's past.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that John Cena wants to appeal to his fan base in China precisely because China is a growing market for goods and services -- as I said earlier. I didn't mean to link to that more critical article, I just picked the first one that showed up in Google search for John Cena apology.

The very fact that the first thing you found paints Cena’s action as sinister confirms my point that the mainstream is very eager to spin any challenge to US hegemony as evil. Should that not make one question the narrative being pushed? At least go read their stated sources, like Zenz’ report. It’s full of unsupported facts and egregious (and convenient) translation mistakes. Then read up on the man himself and his…

[deleted]

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#153
> The Kamloops school operated between 1890 and 1969.

I was going to querry what the estimated amount of dead children there would be as baseline, but the school operated way later then I anticipated and for a shorter time. So 500 pupils and two die every year if uniform, but I guess the deaths were weighted heavely to the beginning. Sounds like a really bad environment for the time, right? The spannish flu surely didn't kill half the school?

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#154

This is one incident among many, but it has less to do with indigenous children as it does with any system wherein the accounting of "disconnected" children is left to that system. Tuam, County Galway ... eight hundred infants with missing graves. St Mary's Cemetery in Lanark, four hundred left in a single mass grave. In Germany, nuns pimping out orphans. The Sisters of Mercy scandal. I could go on. Bluntly put, when…

It seems like the Catholic Church is often (always?) somehow involved in these systemic child abuse/mass grave stories and it’s mind-boggling to me that we continue to allow an organization with that kind of track record to take responsibility for caring for and placing at-risk children.

Celibacy imho plays a significant role in this. In other churches, you can get normal people to join, because they can still live relatively normal lives, get married, have kids, etc.

With celibacy, you immediatly dismiss all people who wish to live relatively "normal" lives, and get a lot more outcasts into the organization.

Add to this a relatively easy access to children, the higher ups giving protection to criminals, and you get where we are now.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the Catholic Church is often (always?) somehow involved in these systemic child abuse/mass grave stories and it’s mind-boggling to me that we continue to allow an organization with that kind of track record to take responsibility for caring for and placing at-risk children.

I’ve heard that insurance for Catholic Churches aren’t any higher than insurance for a different denomination —- the abuse is at the same level as other churches, it’s just that the Catholic Church is so much larger than any of the others. I can say that the mandatory training programs and background checks that are required to work with children (now) far exceed anything I’ve seen from other churches.

This is almost certainly false. Please provide evidence for these claims.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#156
post #87
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These children weren’t abandoned, they were forcefully taken from their families by the government. They were sent vast distances to these boarding schools to “kill the Indian in the child”, where they were often mistreated, sexually abused, and went missing ( murder/neglect/ abuse). So it is all the more egregious in this case. The government turned a blind eye to the Churches, and the Churches were doing God’s work…

The whole system makes a lot more sense if you imagine it through the belief in the “white man’s burden” at the time - it was the white man’s responsibility to educate and assimilate “inferior” cultures into the “superior” Western system. Not to excuse the damage done, but the people doing these things felt like it was their moral responsibility - if they didn’t do it, these cultures would forever be stuck in their i…

Upvoted because it answers my question, “why would they do this?!”.

The immense suffering caused is not justified, but at least now I have some idea as to how they justified them to themselves.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and this is the most difficult form of racism to recognize and avoid. Hatred is easy to recognize. Racism without hatred is often discounted. It’s the people with good intentions who are acting with inherent biases and preconceived world-views who often commit acts of blatant racism without anyone realizing until it’s too late.

I find it odd that some Christian conservatives in the US support policies which are essentially racist. I had a talk with my girlfriend about it and she mentioned one reason could be that they actually think they're doing the right thing according to the Bible. It's true that religion/belief-system "partitions" people -- you're either one of us or we must be against you. Not saying that some (supposedly) Christians…

Which policies are you talking about?

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the Catholic Church is often (always?) somehow involved in these systemic child abuse/mass grave stories and it’s mind-boggling to me that we continue to allow an organization with that kind of track record to take responsibility for caring for and placing at-risk children.

No, it’s people. It’s always people. That even the church carries out such atrocities says more about humanity than it does about the church.

"Even a church"? Like a church would be less likely to carry out these atrocities than other institutions? The opposite is almost certainly true.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#159
I'd be willing to be that at the time any orphanage or boarding school at the time would have similar problems.

There were so-called British "Home Children" orphans sent over to Canada to work housed at private homes. There are many stories how they suffered the same fate. Even in my province an orphanage of local children one of the typical heritage British/Irish/Scottish/French, they also suffered terrible abuse.

There's no prize for who suffered most. The problem is First Nations children are from a minority with few of their own people remaining the abuse suffered amplifies the tragedy along with losing their culture.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#160
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this one https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/093799-000-A/killing-the-india... ?

Found it on YouTube, blocked in most countries but see workaround below [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL5I4u5RSpQ Whitelisted regions: AD, AT, BE, BG, BL, CH, CY, CZ, DE, DK, EE, ES, FI, FR, GB, GF, GP, GR, HR, HU, IE, IS, IT, LI, LT, LU, LV, MC, MF, MQ, MT, NC, NL, NO, PF, PL, PM, PT, RE, RO, SE, SI, SK, SM, TF, VA, WF, YT [2] [1] downloading/streaming on VLC, mpv or whatever possible from this site: https://v…

I watch ARTE often and I wonder why this specific video is blocked here (Canada). Do they fear that they may face repercussion from the government or some other entities?
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