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Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their location private

businessinsider.com

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Re: Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their location private

#141

Post by nwellnhof »

QuadrupleA wrote: post #74

Google had a brilliant advertising business with AdWords originally, where the ads were simply based on the search term and not a bunch of Orwellian surveillance on the person searching. From the research I've seen, all this privacy-invading crap doesn't even improve ad performance much - it's small incremental gains at best. And per this article, those gains are clearly coming at the expense of user trust and goodwi…

> From the research I've seen, all this privacy-invading crap doesn't even improve ad performance much

Which research? From my experience, personalized ads perform ~50% better than non-personalized ads. This would also explain why Google and Facebook are fighting tooth and nail to keep their tracking infrastructure.

Re: Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their location private

#142

Post by nojito »

nwellnhof wrote: post #141
QuadrupleA wrote: post #74

Google had a brilliant advertising business with AdWords originally, where the ads were simply based on the search term and not a bunch of Orwellian surveillance on the person searching. From the research I've seen, all this privacy-invading crap doesn't even improve ad performance much - it's small incremental gains at best. And per this article, those gains are clearly coming at the expense of user trust and goodwi…

> From the research I've seen, all this privacy-invading crap doesn't even improve ad performance much Which research? From my experience, personalized ads perform ~50% better than non-personalized ads. This would also explain why Google and Facebook are fighting tooth and nail to keep their tracking infrastructure.

Location targeting isn’t effective.

https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/pdf/10.1287/mksc.2019.118...

Google are fighting tooth and nail to protect the illusion that their ads work.

Re: Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their location private

#143

Post by QuadrupleA »

nwellnhof wrote: post #141
QuadrupleA wrote: post #74

Google had a brilliant advertising business with AdWords originally, where the ads were simply based on the search term and not a bunch of Orwellian surveillance on the person searching. From the research I've seen, all this privacy-invading crap doesn't even improve ad performance much - it's small incremental gains at best. And per this article, those gains are clearly coming at the expense of user trust and goodwi…

> From the research I've seen, all this privacy-invading crap doesn't even improve ad performance much Which research? From my experience, personalized ads perform ~50% better than non-personalized ads. This would also explain why Google and Facebook are fighting tooth and nail to keep their tracking infrastructure.

Here's one study - 1st link is a ZdNet summary about it, and 2nd is a direct link to the paper:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/new-research-shows-personalize...

https://weis2019.econinfosec.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/...

Re: Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their location private

#144

Post by heavyset_go »

julianmarq wrote: post #135

I saw some people saying that this makes them want to switch towards iphones next. I'm not gonna lie, I considered it for a moment too, like a year ago... But apple is now engaging in its own share of dark patterns and is now collecting data too. There have been multiple articles on the matter shared here even. Thinking that apple is better than google for privacy (or, even if it is right now , that it will remain so…

> There have been multiple articles on the matter shared here even.

Here are the threads I'm aware of off the top of my head. What other threads should I look into?

- Apple's Cooperation with Authoritarian Governments[1]

- Apple reportedly dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)[2]

- Apple puts more adverts in App Store after ad-tracking ban[3]

- Apple to boost ads business as iPhone changes hurt Facebook[4]

- Apple knew a supplier was using child labor but took 3 years to fully cut ties[5]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26644216

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25777207

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27051736

[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26901868

[5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25607386

Re: Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their location private

#145

Post by anoncake »

quotemstr wrote: post #41
JCM9 wrote: post #13

There’s a huge privacy battle on the horizon in tech. The initial scuffles are just the beginning. Google and Facebook’s business models depend deeply on being able to track information that consumers are increasingly unhappy to share. Both companies attempts to diversify their dependency on such info for their revenue have been broadly unsuccessful (Google fiber or a Google car anyone?). Meanwhile the likes of Apple…

> Google and Facebook’s business models depend deeply on being able to track information that consumers are increasingly unhappy to share I see no evidence that regular people are particularly unhappy with sharing their information. While it's true that on the internet there's a loud privacy activist movement that's grown over the past few years, I don't think this movement reflects the true preferences of the silent…

> I see no evidence that regular people are particularly unhappy with sharing their information.

Then why trick Google and Facebook them into doing that instead of making it opt-in?

Re: Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their location private

#146

Post by throwaway3699 »

jtrip wrote: post #90
jeffbee wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which specific factual aspect of this story do you believe contradicts those claims? I'm a Xoogler, not a Googler, but in my post-Google experience I haven't seen anything that was even in the same league as Google's privacy controls. In my personal privacy threat model I think Google scores 10/10. They protect my data against external attackers, which in my view is the main problem faced by personal data, and their…

What you suggest shows that individuals within the Google organisation do not have blatant open access to personal information. What do you think about the access of personal information to the organisation Google itself? Today the data is safe from menial concerns such as a google employee looking over private information, but what about tomorrow when whole troughs of such private information are made available to o…

Xoogler.

This is almost impossible by design. As mentioned before, every field on a protobuf is tagged for sensitivity, meaning right down to the bare disks there is privacy controls on data.

Engineers under orders to decrypt & copy data literally could not, without a delegated authority from senior people (some will be GDPR officers too), and there would need to be a staggering level of process failure just to get at the data for a few users.

Ultimately you have to decide if you trust Larry & Sergey, nobody else could make this happen. But insider risk just isn't going to happen from a company that treats user data like military treat classified documents.

Re: Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their location private

#147

Post by asdff »

jeffbee wrote: post #137
jtrip wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you suggest shows that individuals within the Google organisation do not have blatant open access to personal information. What do you think about the access of personal information to the organisation Google itself? Today the data is safe from menial concerns such as a google employee looking over private information, but what about tomorrow when whole troughs of such private information are made available to o…

I’m suggesting that based on my experience google has better organizational defenses against individuals or even groups intentionally or accidentally setting a privacy-invasive agenda than other organizations with which I have first-hand experience.

The whole issue is google already has a business model that is a privacy-invasive agenda. The cat you describe has left the bag years ago.

Re: Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their location private

#148

Post by izacus »

vageli wrote: post #85
dv_dt wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way it seems pragmatic. You say all the boundaries are being violated, you might as well get something out of it. Also I’m not sure there’s a lot of difference in loss of privacy and tapping or swiping a credit card.

> Also I’m not sure there’s a lot of difference in loss of privacy and tapping or swiping a credit card. Well for one thing, at least in my experience, most credit card transaction data does not include granular information about the transaction (like the list of groceries you bought).

> Well for one thing, at least in my experience, most credit card transaction data does not include granular information about the transaction (like the list of groceries you bought).

No, that information is collected as part of the "points" discount card and then sold to advertisers together with your credit card transation data.

Re: Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their location private

#149

Post by yccs27 »

tobyhinloopen wrote: post #111
howzitallworkeh wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, you will find iOS bad in different ways. For example: you cannot install NoScript, or anything like it, on an iOS browser. You must choose between "all JS on" or "all JS off", and third-party browsers like Firefox are crippled because Apple forces all iOS browsers to use their WebKit engine under the hood. The myriad of Safari "content blocker" apps are also pretty dismal, and often expensive. So ad-bl…

Ad blocking works perfectly fine, wdym?

Got any recommendations for blocking youtube ads in safari?

Re: Google made it nearly impossible for users to keep their location private

#150

Post by schmorptron »

julianmarq wrote: post #135

I saw some people saying that this makes them want to switch towards iphones next. I'm not gonna lie, I considered it for a moment too, like a year ago... But apple is now engaging in its own share of dark patterns and is now collecting data too. There have been multiple articles on the matter shared here even. Thinking that apple is better than google for privacy (or, even if it is right now , that it will remain so…

Same exact thinking here, plus apple devices being way expensive for not much gain over cheaper devices + not being able to install apps not from the app store + fully closed source OS is keeping me on the android team as well.
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