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All NeXT Inc.'s Plant Lacks Is Orders (1990)

nytimes.com

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Re: All NeXT Inc.'s Plant Lacks Is Orders (1990)

#61

Post by bane »

gvb wrote: post #46
spitfire wrote: post #10

The most interesting part of that article was that they produce prototype boards on the same assembly line as production. No waiting for boards to come in. If they want a board made simply queue it and it's done. They were agile before it was cool to be agile. EDIT: Also, I had a NeXT Cube and NeXT Turbostation with laser printer. They were fantastic. We've barely budged the needle since then.

Well... that is the difference between PR and practicality. PR says "can" like they do it every day. While they could run prototype boards down the line, it is not quite as easy as the video makes it sound and it is unlikely they would do that lightly. To run a prototype board down the line they would have to: * Get the prototype PCBs fabricated (in 1990, this took a lot more time than today where you can get a multi…

It's also likely that they did it on the same line because the automated equipment to build the stuff was so hideously expensive that they had to build it on the same line.

Re: All NeXT Inc.'s Plant Lacks Is Orders (1990)

#62

Post by bane »

gamble wrote: post #21
mkr-hn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturing in the US has never been better. It's the number of people needed to manufacture stuff in the US that's been declining.

If by manufacturing, you mean chemicals, pharmaceuticals, processed agricultural products, pulp&paper, and heavy industrial equipment. Electronics and consumer products manufacturing is dead in the US.

There's tons of chip fabs and other similar electronics plants all over the U.S.

For example:

Texas Instruments - http://www2.prnewswire.com/mnr/ti/39147/

IBM - http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/photo/34680.wss

Micron - http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4087224/Intel-Micron...

That was with fairly minimal searching. Austin, TX is almost lousy with them for example.

Re: All NeXT Inc.'s Plant Lacks Is Orders (1990)

#63

Post by bane »

sehugg wrote: post #49

I almost forgot how DOOM, although primarily a DOS game, was created on NeXT systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_of_Doom#Building_the_gam...

If I recall correctly, id built much of the software on NeXT systems for as long as it was reasonably possible. I have a feeling Carmack loves his current work on iOS.

Re: All NeXT Inc.'s Plant Lacks Is Orders (1990)

#64

Post by spitfire »

ams6110 wrote: post #55
spitfire wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually prefer the feel and sound of the NeXT keyboard over the model M. Though I much prefer the layout of the model M to the NeXT. Coding was a pain on the NeXT keyboard - no pageup/dn home/end keys. But it was fantastic for writing papers and working with mathematica, frame, etc.

IIRC the vertical bar (or was it the tilde) was in a totally nonstandard and awkward place too... didn't seem very smart considering it was still a UNIX machine. The navigation keys were not such a big deal once you realized that all text fields accepted basic Emacs keystrokes for cursor movement.

Yup. The keys were wonky. Fine for openwrite, mathematica and such. Bad for programming.

http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/Next_Station_Keyb...

Re: All NeXT Inc.'s Plant Lacks Is Orders (1990)

#65

Post by recampbell »

mkr-hn wrote: post #5
recampbell wrote: post #4

"In Mr. Jobs's view, the factory testifies to the fact that the United States can still compete as both a low-cost and a world-class manufacturer when it sets its mind to the task." I suppose he has changed his position?

Manufacturing in the US has never been better. It's the number of people needed to manufacture stuff in the US that's been declining.

Yet both the iPad nor the iPhone were manufactured in China. Hence, I'm curious why Steve Jobs reversed an opinion he previously worked so hard to support, as evidenced by the article.

Re: All NeXT Inc.'s Plant Lacks Is Orders (1990)

#66

Post by nowarninglabel »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #51
wheels wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their hardware was a resounding flop and building a state-of-the-art production facility for something for which there was no demand is in retrospect clearly a mistake. Also, given that NeXT was bought for about 15% of Apple's market cap (after laying off most of their employees), it's disingenuous to imply that Apple == NeXT. What saved Apple was the iPod, not OS X and Cocoa.

NeXT, effectively, acquired Apple for negative $429 million (and 1.5 million shares of Apple stock): As everyone knows by now, what began as an Apple purchase of NeXT has been turned inside out and become a NeXT takeover. http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/1997/03/2596 edit: I want to add a couple points to my followup. 1. NeXT's hardware was a resounding flop. Their state-of-the-art factory turned out to be for…

Journalistic hyperbole is not equal to fact. Apple acquired NeXT, for $400 million in cash in stock, at a time in which Apple had a market cap of $3.1 billion. I don't know why you seem to think otherwise. Read it from the horse's mouth along with the relevant financial statements: http://web.archive.org/web/20020208190346/http://product.inf...

http://news.cnet.com/Apple-acquires-Next,-Jobs/2100-1001_3-2...

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Apple_(AAPL)/Data/Market_Capi...

Again, I don't understand why you seem to think otherwise.

Re: All NeXT Inc.'s Plant Lacks Is Orders (1990)

#67

Post by thought_alarm »

spitfire wrote: post #64
ams6110 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC the vertical bar (or was it the tilde) was in a totally nonstandard and awkward place too... didn't seem very smart considering it was still a UNIX machine. The navigation keys were not such a big deal once you realized that all text fields accepted basic Emacs keystrokes for cursor movement.

Yup. The keys were wonky. Fine for openwrite, mathematica and such. Bad for programming. http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/Next_Station_Keyb...

    > Bad for programming.
Unless you like emacs. No Caps Lock taking up precious space, Control/meta/super keys in great position, and the emacs keybindings work not only in emacs, but system wide.

Re: All NeXT Inc.'s Plant Lacks Is Orders (1990)

#68

Post by aaronbrethorst »

nowarninglabel wrote: post #66
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NeXT, effectively, acquired Apple for negative $429 million (and 1.5 million shares of Apple stock): As everyone knows by now, what began as an Apple purchase of NeXT has been turned inside out and become a NeXT takeover. http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/1997/03/2596 edit: I want to add a couple points to my followup. 1. NeXT's hardware was a resounding flop. Their state-of-the-art factory turned out to be for…

Journalistic hyperbole is not equal to fact. Apple acquired NeXT, for $400 million in cash in stock, at a time in which Apple had a market cap of $3.1 billion. I don't know why you seem to think otherwise. Read it from the horse's mouth along with the relevant financial statements: http://web.archive.org/web/20020208190346/http://product.inf... http://news.cnet.com/Apple-acquires-Next,-Jobs/2100-1001_3-2... http://ww…

Within a period of, I believe, 12 months, Steve Jobs became CEO, installed NeXT execs in almost every key exec role in Apple, and replaced the board of directors.

Although Apple acquired NeXT, in every meaningful way, NeXT consumed Apple.

edit: here we go: http://www.apple.com/ca/press/1997/08/NewBoD.html -- Steve convinced three of five to leave.

Re: All NeXT Inc.'s Plant Lacks Is Orders (1990)

#69

Post by ilamont »

If anyone is interested in an analysis of the rise and fall of NeXT, I highly recommend Randall Stross' "Steve Jobs & the NeXT Big Thing", which was published in 1993.

Considering Apple's incredible comeback, it's kind of strange to read something that is so critical of Jobs, but the book really helps inform about his thought processes on product design, marketing, and sales.

Re: All NeXT Inc.'s Plant Lacks Is Orders (1990)

#70

Post by Apocryphon »

kstenerud wrote: post #20
Apocryphon wrote: post #8

"Start-up" company "Steven P." Jobs "United States can still compete as both a low-cost and a world-class manufacturer" So, what other items become amusingly ironic thanks to the lens of retrospect?

In what way? Entrepreneurs are still failing and then eventually hitting home runs. Steve's full name is still Steven P. Jobs. And the US can still complete as both a low-cost and a world-class manufacturer.

This is the joke:

1. The hyphen is redundant nowadays on account of startup becoming a legitimate compound word.

2. No one needs to call Jobs by his full name, he's as big an icon as William Henry "Bill" Gates III. Steven P. is just so quaint-sounding.

3. [generic joke at the expense of American manufacturing]

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