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Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

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Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#41

Post by pyuser583 »

bhouston wrote: post #15
vmception wrote: post #11

Twisted, any guesses as to what was going on? Physical harm? Malnourishment?

I'm not an expert but according to Wikipedia the main culprit was tuberculosis[1], which at the time didn't have an effective cure. These deaths could have been prevented if all the students were not concentrated into these schools. Also it appears that the indigenous population was more susceptible to TB. It appears that TB in the indigenous population is still a problem: "The TB rate among Aboriginal people was alm…

Yeahs when I hear mass graves at old institutions, “outbreak” pops into my head.

And the lack of resistance to European diseases didn’t help.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#42

Post by bhouston »

lucian1900 wrote: post #36
bhouston wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countries denying their own human rights abuses is par for the course. Blaming anyone who brings up those human rights abuse as being an agent (witting or unwitting) of a geopolitical rival is also par for the course. The US itself has a lot of its own problems with systematic racism as well. But if I criticize the US on this front, should I expect a commenter to appear (like yourself) to tell me that this isn't actu…

Russia and China aren't comparable to the US (and allies) in terms of military power, economic coercion or control over propaganda. This false equivalence is manufactured by US and allied media to protect their interests. It's also worth looking at the actual sources. Try to find something claiming genocide in Xinjiang that doesn't end up using Adrian Zenz or a NED-funded think tank as a source. On the other hand, fo…

China does have a lot of influence as well, it is important not to discount it. It will continue to get stronger as well as it becomes an increasingly important market for goods and services.

For example, this apology by actor John Cena this week because he appeared to contravened the official Chinese line that Taiwan is part of China:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/27/john-cenas-apology-after-tai...

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#43

Post by pessimizer »

bhouston wrote: post #32
lucian1900 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But at the same time, false claims of human rights abuses are used all the time to attack official US enemies. Remember the Nayirah testimony? It's merely one of the most visible examples. The world isn't flat with equal power wielded by all countries. Some are exploited and others are exploiters, at gunpoint. We must be precise about claims made, lest we help the exploiter.

Countries denying their own human rights abuses is par for the course. Blaming anyone who brings up those human rights abuse as being an agent (witting or unwitting) of a geopolitical rival is also par for the course. The US itself has a lot of its own problems with systematic racism as well. But if I criticize the US on this front, should I expect a commenter to appear (like yourself) to tell me that this isn't actu…

> But if I criticize the US on this front, should I expect a commenter to appear (like yourself) to tell me that this isn't actually an issue -- it is just being pushed by Russia agents who are only doing so because there is a geopolitics rivalry between US and Russia?

You seem to be arguing from a position that nothing ever actually ever happens, although everything is happening, and there are no such things as truth or falsehoods, everything is both a position being taken by someone to advance their own interests and an honest and heartfelt concern. I wish you would lower yourself to talk specifically and materially about the claims that you're supporting rather than floating in abstractions.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#44

Post by throwcanada_ »

fancyfredbot wrote: post #33
bhouston wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why is bhouston's post being downvoted? People don't believe NYT? Or it's too political to mention this?

I suppose it’s being downvoted because it looks like diversion tactics to draw attention away from what’s actually being discussed, especially considering their other comment making a false assessment of the linked article, as pointed out by throwaway24006.

Disclosure: not related to that other throwaway account in any way. Using a throwaway because I don’t want to drag my main account into ugly topics like this.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#45

Post by Naga »

cheschire wrote: post #3

The final paragraph is the context I desperately needed for the article to have an impact. "The Truth and Reconciliation Commission issued its final report on residential schools more than five years ago. The nearly 4,000-page account details the harsh mistreatment inflicted on Indigenous children at the institutions, where at least 3,200 children died amid abuse and neglect."

This is an article from Aboriginal Peoples Television Network, a Canadian channel. While I understand the issue with context, they're writing to their audience of 1) Canadians who probably already know about residential schools as its in the news frequently and taught in schools and 2) aboriginals who most certain know about the horrors inflicted by the government of their people, many of which are still alive today.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#47

Post by bhouston »

throwaway24006 wrote: post #39
bhouston wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article the incident in question happened in 1978. It may be still happening, but this article does not make that claim. Rather it says it happened 40 years ago and there should be an investigation to its extent. EDIT: I was wrong. In addition to the specific incident discussed and the focus on the past, there is this: "New research shows the forced sterilization of Indigenous women is not just a sha…

No, it makes the claim. 'New research shows the forced sterilization of Indigenous women is not just a shameful part of Canadian history. Reports from Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and the territories suggest it is still happening.'

You are correct, I've amended by comment.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#48

Post by bhouston »

throwcanada_ wrote: post #44
fancyfredbot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is bhouston's post being downvoted? People don't believe NYT? Or it's too political to mention this?

I suppose it’s being downvoted because it looks like diversion tactics to draw attention away from what’s actually being discussed, especially considering their other comment making a false assessment of the linked article, as pointed out by throwaway24006. Disclosure: not related to that other throwaway account in any way. Using a throwaway because I don’t want to drag my main account into ugly topics like this.

The downvoting happened before someone pointed out the concern with that comment. So that probably isn't the cause.

That said, I have amended the specific comment that was wrong to correct it.

I've never seen so many throwaways appear out of nowhere before.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#49

Post by visiblink »

bhouston wrote: post #15
vmception wrote: post #11

Twisted, any guesses as to what was going on? Physical harm? Malnourishment?

I'm not an expert but according to Wikipedia the main culprit was tuberculosis[1], which at the time didn't have an effective cure. These deaths could have been prevented if all the students were not concentrated into these schools. Also it appears that the indigenous population was more susceptible to TB. It appears that TB in the indigenous population is still a problem: "The TB rate among Aboriginal people was alm…

> These deaths could have been prevented if all the students were not concentrated into these schools.

Dr. Peter Bryce's report is essential to understand the preventable deaths from disease: https://archive.org/details/bryceonresidentialschools/Bryce%...

The Indian Department knew that the schools served as a conduit for the spread of disease from at least 1907 onward. Dr. Bryce was still campaigning to get them to address the issue in the 1920s.

Re: Remains of 215 children found at former residential school in British Columbia

#50

Post by todd8 »

colechristensen wrote: post #24
bhouston wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an expert but according to Wikipedia the main culprit was tuberculosis[1], which at the time didn't have an effective cure. These deaths could have been prevented if all the students were not concentrated into these schools. Also it appears that the indigenous population was more susceptible to TB. It appears that TB in the indigenous population is still a problem: "The TB rate among Aboriginal people was alm…

TB is also one of the diseases brought to north america by europeans, so there is less or no natural immunity which comes from thousands of years of exposure, presumably this increased risk from “foreign” diseases still exists to an extent in indigenous populations on top of the other factors which put populations at higher risk.

No, TB was present in pre-Colombian North and South America.

TB is a very ancient disease according to [1,3] and has been present in humans since the dawn of humankind according to [2].

There is evidence of the disease in human remains from the Neolithic era and Egyptian mummies from 3000 BC. Furthermore there are references to the the disease in writing from both ancient India [5] and ancient 2700 BC China, see [4].

According to [6], seals carried TB to the Americas from Africa approximately 6000 years ago; although the Wikipedia entry for TB says that it has been "unambiguously detected" in bison remains in Wyoming dated to around 17,000 years ago. [7]

[1] I. Barberis, et. al., The history of tuberculosis: from the first historical records to the isolation of Koch's bacillus, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5432783/

[2] https://scalar.usc.edu/hc/tuberculosis-exhibit/tuberculosis-...

[3] A Thomas Pezzella, History of Pulmonary Tuberculosis, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30454916/

[5] https://tbfacts.org/tb-india-history/

[6] https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13591

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberculosis

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