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The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

ft.com

211–220 of 236 posts

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#211
post #14

I get that money laundering is always linked to criminal activity, but how have we always just accepted the lack of personal privacy when it comes to finance? Privacy is a feature, not a bug; and whilst crypto may not be the way forward, I hope one day we can reach a solution that has both privacy and also safety. The language used by law enforcement is quite alarming, it suggests that they should be privy to ALL tra…

There's a difference between privacy and secrecy. If I'm involving my bank, what I'm doing is already not secret. My bank knows. But normally they keep those things private, because it's generally not anybody's business. There are occasions where society's interest in preventing crime outweighs personal privacy, and one way to look at that is that when something (like, say, ransomware) has an effect on other people,…

>>When that happens, as long as there are reasonable checks and balances, I'm fine with banks giving out information, especially when it's organizations that generally respect the privacy of the people involved.

A reasonable check and balance would be the requirement for the state to get a warrant, issued by a court when probable cause is found, not 'every transaction over $10,000 is reported to the state for its warrantless mass-surveillance system'.

The $10,000 threshold was set in 1970, when factoring in inflation, it was $70,000 of today's money, and when average income was lower, making its application more seldom still.

The dragnet steadily catches more and more transactions from the twin trends of rising real incomes and inflation reducing the real value of the threshold.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a tax requires the entire citizenry surrendering all of their financial privacy, it should be abolished.

What system would be fair and acceptable to you?

A land tax: doesn't violate private property or privacy rights, counter-acts wealth disparity, impossible to evade, and considered the perfect tax by economists due to doing zero harm to economic efficiency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US legal system, that refers to whether you can be punished for a crime, not investigated for one.

An investigation that would require a warrant. My point being that all activities should not be considered criminal by default thereby available for perusal without a legally provided reason. And only then if very narrow in scope.

The OP didn't say he wanted all financial activities to be considered criminal - just available for investigation.

I get that's not what you want, but it is what OP wants and I can see why.

All part of the eternal struggle between individual freedom and societal good.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered about this but can't criminals just get some kyc info from the black market or even some homeless person and withdraw money in that person's name? Why bother with obfuscating wallets chain hopping if all that matters is to not be asociated with the name that ultimately withdraws from an exchange

Going back to your question, then why bother with the other stuff? Not everyone wants fiat. Not now, not eventually. They are able to obtain goods and services in crypto. They are able to pay developers, buy games, invest in other crypto/projects ensuring the success or perception of success of people they like, control crypto networks with voting power, create exchanges and other infrastructure. There is no "eventua…

Thanks, makes sense

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#215
post #208
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really neat. Have you thought about trying to bundle it as an app that can be downloaded on umbrel?

Yes! Will be on umbrel eventually. Currently needs a Bitcoin Core build from the master branch. The features use should be in the upcoming release. Then Umbrel!

Looking forward to it!

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#216
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well everybody is just not as in the loop as you are. Not sure what is hilarious about that...

The point is that this article conflates several things and is describing some fairly outdated or inefficient obfuscation techniques of which launderers would be some of the users of. It goes from Hydra market duffle-bags of cash hiders (lolwut), to chain-hopping and scant mention of privacy coins. It randomly talks about Wasabi wallet same-chain bitcoin mixers, and then talks about Bitcoin Fog's operator being arres…

> I get the impression that they have no idea.

I suspect this is the case; I used to really enjoy the FT but think the spark has gone since the Nikkei acquisition.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a tax requires the entire citizenry surrendering all of their financial privacy, it should be abolished.

What system would be fair and acceptable to you?

A miniscule tax on every transaction. Automatically deducted. That's it! No other tax allowed.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#218
post #99
post #14

I get that money laundering is always linked to criminal activity, but how have we always just accepted the lack of personal privacy when it comes to finance? Privacy is a feature, not a bug; and whilst crypto may not be the way forward, I hope one day we can reach a solution that has both privacy and also safety. The language used by law enforcement is quite alarming, it suggests that they should be privy to ALL tra…

Money laundering is not always linked to criminal activity except in so far as money laundering it itself illegal. Many nations (and not just "third world" nations) have some pretty onerous restrictions of flow of capital. A lot of money laundering activity is simply people moving money between jurisdictions. Admittedly, sometimes (usually?) with illegal goals such as tax evasion, but not always.

Cyprus' capital controls around 2013 was a catalyst that brought bitcoin into the broader discourse and pushed it to 1k shortly after.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#219
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what it's like, so here is a small calculation. Some metrics: - 144 blocks per day are mined on average - the current network hashrate is 145M TH/s - a 100 TH/s rig is about $10k. The investment to be able to have full control of mining one block on average, without electricity, internet and storage : - per week: you'd need 143k TH/s (145M / (144 * 7)), so about $14M of investment in just the mining rig (…

Now run the same numbers for ETH.

No, I was just curious how big a mining pool one had to have to pull it off. I invite you to do the same for ETH if you're curious about it.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#220
The only people that would buy dirty crypto are people with dirty cash. Even then, it would be a profoundly stupid transaction from a cash flow or security perspective. Those cryptos have basically zero value, and you just made yourself traceable in an area of technology you probably know nothing about, except some blurb on the Internet about how secure it is. If you’re going into business in ransomware or money laundering, and you’re calculating profits by the exchange rate on Coinbase, you are a moron, and you’re about to get wrecked.
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