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Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

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Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#51

Post by themacguffinman »

kevingadd wrote: post #35
jokoon wrote: post #4

Its totally possible to make a large online game with proper procedural generation of geometry and sharded servers for zones. It's a bit of work but it's doable. Games are not about content, they're about multiplayer experience. Online games don't need content or scenario or background. A game without story is a software product. Not saying this is not a scam though, but real of the old gods proved it was possible to…

"Games are not about content, they're about multiplayer experience. Online games don't need content or scenario or background." With a few notable exceptions, this is literally not true. Just do a survey of all the big money-earning PC MMOs or phone games. Picking a random result from page 1 of the google results for "best selling MMORPGs" - I'll place their list here and comment on it: Guild Wars: (I worked on this…

A bit of a tangent, there was a notorious reddit thread a long time ago with a comment by someone supposedly in the MMO industry [1] that echoes your point about content:

> Art is one of the biggest expenses in a commercially-produced MMO. There's a LOT of it, it's time intensive to create, and it has to be turned around fast

That thread mostly focused on how unrealistic it is for one person to develop an MMO by themselves, which is not exactly the case here. But it gives a bit of a taste as to why MMORPG is one of the most challenging game genres to succeed with. "Half of all MMOs commercially developed never release; half the survivors immediately fail", and the remaining successes almost all have staggeringly huge amounts of art & lore like you mentioned.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/p1ssv/dear_internet...

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#52

Post by sanxiyn »

aeturnum wrote: post #48
sanxiyn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am all for investor protection, but "other people" here are supposed to be accredited investors. Caveat emptor etc.

I can see why you would say that other investors should do their own research, but many people view a YC investment as a vote of confidence in the company in question. Your view makes me curious about how you think about the role of an incubator. Like...are there any lines YC could cross? Does their investment in a company reflect on them at all? What value do they provide other than seed money to companies?

YC provides seed money. No one should rely on YC for due diligence.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#53

Post by serf »

tptacek wrote: post #6

You're not meant to editorialize titles like this on HN. People who submit stories have no more claim to their viewpoint than any commenter does. The title here should be: "This MMO that promised an 'infinite open world' has become a giant fiasco"

"Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. "

Feels weird to nitpick scam versus fiasco, but whatever.

I'd be upset either way as an investor, but just flag it if need be -- as per guidelines.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#54

Post by walrus01 »

jokoon wrote: post #4

Its totally possible to make a large online game with proper procedural generation of geometry and sharded servers for zones. It's a bit of work but it's doable. Games are not about content, they're about multiplayer experience. Online games don't need content or scenario or background. A game without story is a software product. Not saying this is not a scam though, but real of the old gods proved it was possible to…

> Games are not about content, they're about multiplayer experience.

The amazing success and critical acclaim of single player games such as Horizon Zero Dawn, the Metal Gear Solid series and the Deus Ex series, among others, might make you reconsider your position on that.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#55

Post by themacguffinman »

ffhhj wrote: post #42
xmly wrote: post #34

Nepotism at Y Combinator ? What is this about?

Favoritism shown or patronage granted to relatives and friends. But I think this is just an example that shows investment is merely gambling.

Not necessarily, the article mentions that YC allegedly never even vetted the project:

> According to Upton, a senior employee at Y Combinator claims that Bellack has a friend in the accelerator who helped greenlight DreamWorld without the appropriate due diligence. "Originally, I thought this was a bit of a joke, but they called me and validated all their information and their sources. This person is actually higher up than just investing," he says. "[DreamWorld] wasn't vetted. They apparently had nothing to show on demo day, and they were still allowed through."

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#56

Post by dbg31415 »

jokoon wrote: post #4

Its totally possible to make a large online game with proper procedural generation of geometry and sharded servers for zones. It's a bit of work but it's doable. Games are not about content, they're about multiplayer experience. Online games don't need content or scenario or background. A game without story is a software product. Not saying this is not a scam though, but real of the old gods proved it was possible to…

> Games are not about content, they're about multiplayer experience...

Did you play Fallout 76 at launch? Oof. It was terrible. They've since added NPCs, but it's really hard to fix a bad first impression.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#57

Post by kleinsch »

dvt wrote: post #8

I've been following the DreamWorld saga on YouTube for a hot minute now, mainly because I find it so interesting how they got through the YC vetting process when I myself have applied twice (maybe 3 times) and I also know plenty of people -- brilliant, motivated, entrepreneurial folks -- that applied many (many) times as well and were rejected (YC is mega-competitive after all). IMO, it's a bit insulting to the strug…

Yea, I’ve found it interesting reading about YC companies from this batch that include:

- A scam MMO

- Terminal autocomplete as a service

- A Splitwise clone

- An app that puts your next meeting in your menu bar (for $10/month!)

YC gets 5K+ applications/cycle, accepts 1-3%, so they rejected 4500+ companies for these?

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#58

Post by coldcode »

I know what building an MMO is like, having worked on one 10 years ago that was already 10 years old and still exists today (small audience though).

Building something like these people are talking about requires more $ than a Marvel superhero movie to get anywhere. We could manage about 100 simultaneous players visible to each other in a reasonable time but no more; the internet is not fast enough to manage more than that many "people" with anything resembling real behavior, even then its hard to maintain the illusion of fluidity with the random latency of so many streams using prediction. Supporting millions of users like these people claim is fantasy even if you only saw a handful. Maintaining state in a single world at that volume is impossible with real people (you can fake a lot of "AI" characters but not actual players). There is reason why most MMO and similar games limit the number of players, or like Eve throttle the game time and slow everything down if too many ships appear in the same place (not possible in a "on ground" sort of world).

Also building something of this magnitude and even getting it to do even a small subset of what they want requires people with lots of experience, as this is highly complex and specialized programming, not to mention an enormous amount of art creation, lighting, audio, story and other content, unless you go the No Man's Sky route and generate everything. But they don't support huge numbers of"local" players either.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#59

Post by rcxdude »

jokoon wrote: post #4

Its totally possible to make a large online game with proper procedural generation of geometry and sharded servers for zones. It's a bit of work but it's doable. Games are not about content, they're about multiplayer experience. Online games don't need content or scenario or background. A game without story is a software product. Not saying this is not a scam though, but real of the old gods proved it was possible to…

This is very rare in MMOs. Most are not really sandboxes but theme parks, where most multiplayer is through interacting with the content cooperatively.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#60

Post by 650REDHAIR »

coldcode wrote: post #58

I know what building an MMO is like, having worked on one 10 years ago that was already 10 years old and still exists today (small audience though). Building something like these people are talking about requires more $ than a Marvel superhero movie to get anywhere. We could manage about 100 simultaneous players visible to each other in a reasonable time but no more; the internet is not fast enough to manage more tha…

See star citizen for a recent example
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