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The media's lab leak fiasco

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691–700 of 736 posts

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#691

This is a the consequence of having an administration that transparently lied at every turn. Even if they were right, no one would believe them.

Your statement follows a pattern of, ‘the person was doing X therefore the unjustifiable response was justified.’ This fails the commonly adopted Rawlsian theory of justice (Veil of Ignorance), and it is known as victim blaming.

I made no statement about whether anyone's actions were justified, only that they made sense given the state of affairs.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#692
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It set off the flamewar detector as well as getting a lot of user flags. I've turned that off now. As for 'suppressed' please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27309238 .

> As for 'suppressed' please see... thanks for the list. The suppression I'm talking about occurred before your earliest link, threads closed, cut off, etc. I remember because I learned about Yuri Deigin's research in April and no discussion of it was allowed on HN which should be a place for reasoned discussion

Reasoned discussion has a fraught relationship with large groups.

I'd be a bit careful about the word "allowed" because that posits an "allower" when much of the process you're describing is stochastic. I'm not trying to evade responsibility for the part that we play (at least I hope I'm not), but it's so much more complicated than just "allow v. unallow".

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem that there is censorship on publishing in the big journals. That said, there are published RCT showing Ivermectin effectiveness. In my second link on my first comment, there's a talk about the overwhelming data, censorship and hindrances for publishing. Sharing evidence on Ivermectin - Dr. Tess Lawrie https://player.vimeo.com/video/554350476?autoplay=1#t=5756

Is there widespread censorship? https://ivmmeta.com links to all sorts of studies published on the effectiveness of ivwhatever, all as support for using it. It sounds more like the rest of the research/medical community is just not convinced.

Yes, indeed. Again, this discussed here:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/videos-and-press/flccc-relea...

And in video form here:

https://youtu.be/LkIKCbwBcLU?t=702

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I’m not going to claim if it’s a monopoly or not directly, but just provide new angles on this debate… Twitter may have an x% of market valuations of other companies… but that doesn’t have to be the only metric we base decisions off of. Amazon is more than twitch, so has a bigger evaluation. But obviously that other business doesn’t compete with Twitter. Twitter might account for (eg) 25% of phone use time (and s…

Sure. Many things are possible. Twitter could be using an embedded hypnotron in their apps to control elite opinion. But when people are talking about effectively nationalizing one company because they don't like its moderation policies, I think we need more than speculation. And you might not care about why we have antitrust laws or how monopoly impairs free markets. But I sure do. If somebody wants to make the clai…

> Gab and Parler are eternally claiming success in attracting millions of users.

So Gab and Parler should be absolutely free to operate as they wish, in accordance with US laws?

(Because there many folks who like Twitter's moderation who also believe Gab and Parler should be run off the internet, and have tried their best to do so)

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#695

Am I the only one who feels like this is mostly a non-issue. I feel like the case of if this came from a lab for from a market is mostly taking a political side against China - if it came from a lab, or for China - if it was naturally developed. If it came from a Chinese lab as part of a conscious effort of weaponizing a virus, sure, that's important, but I don't think anyone is saying that. If it came from a lab acc…

>If the source had been Belgium (just as an example), would the source be covered by the media at all?

Blimey - it would have been headlines in every paper on the planet for weeks if it was shown to be a Belgium lab cock up.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No that does not shock me. But the point is that one strategy can be good for one goal but bad for another. Going around Chinatown and encouraging the populous to do the same "to combat racism" is obviously at odds with "be careful and social distance due to covid". Does that shock the shit out of you? I'll be honest as well, I think Pelosi's real motive there is to do the opposite of what Trump wants, rather than co…

She did it at a time when there were zero incidents of COVID in the US and before the Republican party decided that to get ahead of the issue they'd create a racist flamewar instead of trying to handle the problem. Doing the opposite of what reality dictates was Trump's schtick, not Pelosi's.

Yeah, the other team "decided to create a racist flamewar". They met in a room, those angry old white men, and decided, together, that the best strategy is to create a racist flamewar. Someone suggested they should try to handle the problem, but everyone else disagreed. Someone else was like, fuck it, a racist flamewar is clearly the best strategy to get ahead, and his cisgendered straight colleagues all agreed that would be the best strategy. Meanwhile Pelosi, the hero of the piece, boldly went into Chinatown to combat this. Thank you Pelosi for your sacrifice and dedicated service. Your hair looks lovely by the way. A couple weeks later San Francisco went into full lockdown of course, but it was still a good idea she encouraged everyone to go to Chinatown when she did. The incoming pandemic and racism was handled incredibly well in liberal San Francisco, and if anything did go wrong, it was because of the racist and incompetent Republicans.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#697
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! I've added these two to the above list: Wuhan lab did research on bat viruses, but no evidence of accidental release - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23070031 - May 2020 (76 comments) Experts disagree on whether Covid-19 could have leaked from a research lab - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22695825 - March 2020 (6 comments) The others seem to either have no comments or in one case (the Montagnier…

I know your focus is generally pointing to prior discussion. Just to be clear, I'm looking at the evolution of the story itself, at least as reflected through HN submissions (survival bias noted).

Yes, it's two different angles.

Users generally don't like clicking on HN /item links that go to threads with no comments, so I tend to avoid those.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a tip: stop saying shit like "MAGA-verse" and try to talk to people, assuming they're good human beings with honest intentions.

I’m quoting the person you’re talking about. You claimed they’re saying you’re from the magaverse, when they were explicitly referring to "other comments".

I don't care whether the comment/insult was directed at me. My tip still applies, my man.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russiagate is just one prior example. It was patently false from the outset What is "Russiagate"? What about it was "patently false"? The Mueller investigation got multiple indictments against Russian nationals. They also obtained convictions of people working in the Trump campaign or administration for election-related offenses. They found evidence of Russian attempts to influence voters in swing states by illegal…

This is a very interesting comment for future historians, as it shows how people convince themselves that they have absorbed substance when in fact there is no such substance. Virtually no aspect of your statement extends beyond press headlines, where the content and follow-on of each of these stories entirely defused the substance of the respective headline. That is why the whole thing that you believe is very impor…

The irony of talking about substance when offering practically none in one's own comment.

> Virtually no aspect of your statement extends beyond press headlines

I didn't realize I was writing an exam with essay-type questions.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very interesting comment for future historians, as it shows how people convince themselves that they have absorbed substance when in fact there is no such substance. Virtually no aspect of your statement extends beyond press headlines, where the content and follow-on of each of these stories entirely defused the substance of the respective headline. That is why the whole thing that you believe is very impor…

This comment would be more valuable if you’d made it in a constructive way with even one detailed example of defused substance.

That's the irony. Their own views don't have any actual substance.
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