I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time • Hacker News Board

Re: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time

#51

Post by typon » Fri, May 28, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #45

xacky wrote: post #43

What's more is that it also has a full web browser that is not based on webkit/blink/gecko but its own independent engine.

But I've been told by Hacker News multiple times that developing an independent browser is impossible without the means of a multi-million dollar corporation.

Every time I hear V8 mentioned, people talk about it like it's some sort of sacred tablet given to us mortals by Lord Google. It's good, but its just another interpreter/compiler.

Re: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time

#52

Post by dvfjsdhgfv » Fri, May 28, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #45

xacky wrote: post #43

What's more is that it also has a full web browser that is not based on webkit/blink/gecko but its own independent engine.

But I've been told by Hacker News multiple times that developing an independent browser is impossible without the means of a multi-million dollar corporation.

Even if you somehow manage to fully implement all of JS with decent performance, you will finally hit the wall with video DRM - your users will never be able to watch Netflix, for example.

Re: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time

#53

Post by adenozine » Fri, May 28, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

tachyonbeam wrote: post #47

krapp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I've been told by Hacker News multiple times that developing an independent browser is impossible without the means of a multi-million dollar corporation.

I mean, it kind of is. You can make a basic browser, sure, but you'll have a hard time implementing video playback, canvas, JavaScript and everything else, while also delivering good performance and rendering everything accurately. Yes, I know his browser has JS support, but the performance is likely at least an order of magnitude slower than V8 or Firefox... And then there's CSS, and the fact that HTML, JS and CSS k…

Just a nitpick, but I'm pretty sure Opera was gutted of engineers as well after their acquisition fiasco with that Chinese outfit. I don't think they had as much manpower as the good ol days AND not enough manpower to compete with the old engine.

I'm on mobile or I'd go find a source, but I'm fairly certain some key people left before all that went down.

Not that maintaining a web browser is easy, but they WERE doing it, to varying success.

Re: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time

#54

Post by ncmncm » Fri, May 28, 2021, 5:45 PM UTC

tachyonbeam wrote: post #47

krapp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I've been told by Hacker News multiple times that developing an independent browser is impossible without the means of a multi-million dollar corporation.

I mean, it kind of is. You can make a basic browser, sure, but you'll have a hard time implementing video playback, canvas, JavaScript and everything else, while also delivering good performance and rendering everything accurately. Yes, I know his browser has JS support, but the performance is likely at least an order of magnitude slower than V8 or Firefox... And then there's CSS, and the fact that HTML, JS and CSS k…

Like telecomm, wifi, and USB standards, web browsing protocol standards are deliberately overcomplicated as a way to legally fend off competition. Anytime a big corporation gets its hooks into a Standard, one can expect its complexity to grow forever unless an individual at said corporation prevents it.

Re: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time

#55

Post by Thaxll » Fri, May 28, 2021, 5:47 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #45

xacky wrote: post #43

What's more is that it also has a full web browser that is not based on webkit/blink/gecko but its own independent engine.

But I've been told by Hacker News multiple times that developing an independent browser is impossible without the means of a multi-million dollar corporation.

That's the 80/20, for day to day it probably does not work. So indeed creating an independent browser is pretty much impossible.

Re: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time

#56

Post by phaemon » Fri, May 28, 2021, 5:49 PM UTC

jagger27 wrote: post #41

phaemon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to be pretty smart to write an OS, and only dumb people and smart people are religious. Atheism is the belief for mediocre minds. ;)

Care to expand on those bold assertions?

I'm not sure what you consider bold about the assertions so it's difficult to expand. I am certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed, and I'm religious, so that provides at least circumstantial evidence for my initial statement.

Do you think I should consider that atheists could be dumb too? Most of the ones I've spoken to seem fairly convinced that they're reasonably smart.

Re: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time

#57

Post by roywashere » Fri, May 28, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

xacky wrote: post #43

What's more is that it also has a full web browser that is not based on webkit/blink/gecko but its own independent engine.

I just backed his Patreon just because of this!

Re: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time

#58

Post by rogerclark » Fri, May 28, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

tachyonbeam wrote: post #47

krapp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I've been told by Hacker News multiple times that developing an independent browser is impossible without the means of a multi-million dollar corporation.

I mean, it kind of is. You can make a basic browser, sure, but you'll have a hard time implementing video playback, canvas, JavaScript and everything else, while also delivering good performance and rendering everything accurately. Yes, I know his browser has JS support, but the performance is likely at least an order of magnitude slower than V8 or Firefox... And then there's CSS, and the fact that HTML, JS and CSS k…

In the span of about 2 years, the Serenity browser has gone from nothing to where it is now. It already supports JavaScript and the canvas API.

Do you think you could build this in 2 years? The answer is yes, you could.

Re: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time

#59

Post by tachyonbeam » Fri, May 28, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #54

tachyonbeam wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it kind of is. You can make a basic browser, sure, but you'll have a hard time implementing video playback, canvas, JavaScript and everything else, while also delivering good performance and rendering everything accurately. Yes, I know his browser has JS support, but the performance is likely at least an order of magnitude slower than V8 or Firefox... And then there's CSS, and the fact that HTML, JS and CSS k…

Like telecomm, wifi, and USB standards, web browsing protocol standards are deliberately overcomplicated as a way to legally fend off competition. Anytime a big corporation gets its hooks into a Standard, one can expect its complexity to grow forever unless an individual at said corporation prevents it.

IMO, it's more that the standards are overcomplicated as a result of (unhealthy) competition. This is maybe less true now, but my impression has been that until recently, Firefox and Chrome were both always racing to implement some new proprietary feature before the other browsers could design an equivalent. There were no standards. In fact, even before that, the way JavaScript was created is that Brendan Eich, at NetScape, implemented it in two weeks. The same was true of many other browser features, they were rushed into production in order to outdo other browsers and have this new feature first, and then everyone was kind of stuck having to support every half-baked feature because some websites made use of them.

Re: I quit my job to focus on SerenityOS full time

#60

Post by roywashere » Fri, May 28, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #52

krapp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I've been told by Hacker News multiple times that developing an independent browser is impossible without the means of a multi-million dollar corporation.

Even if you somehow manage to fully implement all of JS with decent performance, you will finally hit the wall with video DRM - your users will never be able to watch Netflix, for example.

Widevine is the first DRM to be really open to be ported. They suck the least of all DRM systems. This is the DRM used in the Chrome browser and Firefox. I think it would be possible (not easy, or logical, but possible) that Serenity Browser gets Widevine at some point.