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Sandwell Bitcoin mine found stealing electricity

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Sandwell Bitcoin mine found stealing electricity

#171

Post by Wowfunhappy »

arsome wrote: post #146
bluGill wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just electrical rate, also what you do with the waste heat. I know at least one person who is heating his garage. Mining bitcoin is cheaper than an electric heater for the same task. A heat pump would probably be more cost effective in the long run, but I didn't tell him that.

Yeah, during the winter I mine on my video card because I'm basically just swapping some of my natural gas heat out for a few hundred watts of electric heat and my electricity is primarily provided by nuclear and hydro. Kind of weird to think of mining as a way to reduce your carbon emissions but in some cases it certainly can be. I'll definitely look more into heatpumps when it comes time to replace my furnace or ai…

> Kind of weird to think of mining as a way to reduce your carbon emissions but in some cases it certainly can be.

Have you actually done that calculation out? You say "primarily provided by", but I wonder what that means, given just how much electricity you need to actually heat a home via GPUs.

(You may of course be saving money given the profit you generate, but that's not the same thing as reducing emissions.)

Re: Sandwell Bitcoin mine found stealing electricity

#172

Post by thinkmassive »

gaff33 wrote: post #160
thinkmassive wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some industrial scale miners might have commitments to buy electricity at a certain rate. It could be more expensive to break a contract than to keep their equipment running when the exchange rate temporarily falls below profitability. Also not everyone has easy access to an exchange. Others may prefer to avoid the KYC paperwork, or simply be willing to pay a premium for freshly mined coins.

There's a healthy power market - so the providers can and should work out a way for their clients to exit their contract and for them to sell the electricity elsewhere. Sure the client might be liable for some loss-of-earnings fees but this really should be better for everyone than this.

Sure, but also take into account that a mining operation large enough to enter into electricity contracts probably has other obligations like facilities and staff. Overall it may not be worth the hassle to shutdown for what could be interpreted as typical exchange rate fluctuations.

Re: Sandwell Bitcoin mine found stealing electricity

#173

Post by frosted-flakes »

amarant wrote: post #155
arsome wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, during the winter I mine on my video card because I'm basically just swapping some of my natural gas heat out for a few hundred watts of electric heat and my electricity is primarily provided by nuclear and hydro. Kind of weird to think of mining as a way to reduce your carbon emissions but in some cases it certainly can be. I'll definitely look more into heatpumps when it comes time to replace my furnace or ai…

I don't know about Canadian winters, but heat pumps certainly perform well in Swedish winters, which I don't imagine are much milder than Canadian ones. If you can get a water-water heat pump you'll be fine for sure (requires drilling a rather deep hole in your backyard tho, so the initial investment is a bit bigger)

While geothermal systems do use heat pumps, the term "heat pump" in general conversation almost always refers to air-source heat pumps (air to air), not geothermal. In the US/Canada, drilling additional wells is prohibitively expensive for most people, which is why geothermal systems haven't taken off.

Heat pumps don't perform very well, or at all, when it's -30° or -40°, so a secondary heat source is needed. Usually, that will be natural gas, in which case why bother with a heat pump when you can just burn much cheaper natural gas?

Re: Sandwell Bitcoin mine found stealing electricity

#174

Post by arsome »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #171
arsome wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, during the winter I mine on my video card because I'm basically just swapping some of my natural gas heat out for a few hundred watts of electric heat and my electricity is primarily provided by nuclear and hydro. Kind of weird to think of mining as a way to reduce your carbon emissions but in some cases it certainly can be. I'll definitely look more into heatpumps when it comes time to replace my furnace or ai…

> Kind of weird to think of mining as a way to reduce your carbon emissions but in some cases it certainly can be. Have you actually done that calculation out? You say " primarily provided by", but I wonder what that means, given just how much electricity you need to actually heat a home via GPUs. (You may of course be saving money given the profit you generate, but that's not the same thing as reducing emissions.)

Well, just to give you an idea, my province typically ranges from 1-10% provided by fossil fuels and of the fossil fuels - it's just natural gas. I'm sure there's some line losses there, but I don't think they're enough to overcome the 90%+ of energy coming from other sources.

Of course, I'm not heating my entire home with a single GPU, merely offsetting a small portion of my overall heating cost.

Re: Sandwell Bitcoin mine found stealing electricity

#175

Post by Black101 »

phire wrote: post #42

Looking at the picture, they are using really old bitcoin ASIC miners from 2017. A profitability calculator I found says this Antminer S9 can get $948/year of income in exchange for $1,371 worth of electricity. That's a loss of $422/year. Obviously it's not profitable to use anymore, unless you are literally stealing electricity like these guys.

Free electricity is not a thing in your world?

Re: Sandwell Bitcoin mine found stealing electricity

#177

Post by scrollaway »

josefresco wrote: post #132
scrollaway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have cash, mining is unprofitable, and you want btc, there's a more profitable solution you're not seeing here.

> If you have cash This is key. You can't "just buy BTC directly" if you don't have cash. Even if you have cash for the initial purchase of crypto, you then have no recurring income. The startup model is again relevant here as you're trading a short term loss, for the potential of a long term gain. Similarly, why don't VC's just invest in profitable, stable companies?

Very fair point.

Re: Sandwell Bitcoin mine found stealing electricity

#179

Post by cecilpl2 »

josefresco wrote: post #158
addingnumbers wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on. You think the power company only asks for $0.10 after you use $1 worth of power that month?

My mistake, I'm a moron. The math is just worse, because you'd have to cash out some of your FAKECOIN for electricity. I'll accept the downvotes with dignity!

You'd have to cash out all of your FAKECOIN for electricity and still be out $0.10, with no FAKECOIN left.

Re: Sandwell Bitcoin mine found stealing electricity

#180

Post by shkkmo »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #173
amarant wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Canadian winters, but heat pumps certainly perform well in Swedish winters, which I don't imagine are much milder than Canadian ones. If you can get a water-water heat pump you'll be fine for sure (requires drilling a rather deep hole in your backyard tho, so the initial investment is a bit bigger)

While geothermal systems do use heat pumps, the term "heat pump" in general conversation almost always refers to air-source heat pumps (air to air), not geothermal. In the US/Canada, drilling additional wells is prohibitively expensive for most people, which is why geothermal systems haven't taken off. Heat pumps don't perform very well, or at all, when it's -30° or -40°, so a secondary heat source is needed. Usually…

The context maters here. If a boat is being discussed, it won't be air to air.
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