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Lifetime Earnings in the United States over Six Decades

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41–50 of 76 posts

Re: Lifetime Earnings in the United States over Six Decades

#41

Who knew such an admiral goal: "having women entering the workforce en mass" would have such a depressing result: "it is now much more difficult for a family to survive on one income" What is the solution? Obviously, we would like to keep moving forward and allow anyone that is willing and able to do the job they want, but if anyone would like to be with their children, or take time off while a spouse works, that sho…

> It seems to me the increases of efficiency should allow all people a minimum quality life(...), no matter their contribution to society. I think this can turn people that are a strain on the system to contributors

How would they be contributors? I'm thinking maybe you mean that they will participate economically (buying stuff and making more babies). Is that really a good thing though, to have people who do nothing to contribute besides consume things--especially from a climate standpoint? It seems unnatural to me, because nature rewards competition, survival of the fittest, etc..

Re: Lifetime Earnings in the United States over Six Decades

#42
post #8

Is there any explanation for why in Figure 4, the aggregate line is so much higher than the two lines that are supposed to the same thing for the two groups that the population described by the aggregate line neatly partitions into? EDIT: I may have answered that to myself by drawing some income distribution curves. I guess it's a plausible outcome if the P90 for "all" is closer to the male P90 while the P10 is close…

Yep. If women are [10,20,30,40,50] and men are [100,200,300,400,500] then p90/p10 is the same for each, but combined it's 500/10.

Terribly off numbers for illustrative purposes of course.

Re: Lifetime Earnings in the United States over Six Decades

#43

It's great to see the gains women are making.

It just means it's now harder for families to make it on a single income that used to be the responsibility of the father. This drives wages lower as we're seeing and makes it harder on everyone.

It is harder to support families because the required wages have increased. It's fully possible we'd be in the same situation if women didn't see those relative gains.

Re: Lifetime Earnings in the United States over Six Decades

#44
post #6

I was hoping to see how much people earn in their lifetime. And how that changed over time. I was wondering the other day other how many years are high earners are actually earning a very high income. In-equality wise it is very different if people in the 2 percentile of income stay there for a decade or more or if they are in that income bracket only for a few years while doing a specific job and drop down to lower…

This data is pretty much what you're asking about[1].

In summary, people in the top income quintile have a 70% chance of staying there. In other words, less than one third of the top income bracket are "new" people every decade.

40% of people also escape the bottom income quintile every decade.

Overall, the diagonal on the chart shows that you are pretty likely to stay in the same quintile over time, but there is still lots of mobility.

[1] https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroom-and-events/publication...

Re: Lifetime Earnings in the United States over Six Decades

#45

Who knew such an admiral goal: "having women entering the workforce en mass" would have such a depressing result: "it is now much more difficult for a family to survive on one income" What is the solution? Obviously, we would like to keep moving forward and allow anyone that is willing and able to do the job they want, but if anyone would like to be with their children, or take time off while a spouse works, that sho…

>> Who knew such an admiral goal: "having women entering the workforce en mass" would have such a depressing result: "it is now much more difficult for a family to survive on one income" That's kind of expected. Our society/economy/marketing are designed to get people to spend 100 percent of their income or more. So when families get 2 incomes it causes inflation or enables people to buy more stuff (iPhones) or whate…

>That's kind of expected. Our society/economy/marketing are designed to get people to spend 100 percent of their income or more. So when families get 2 incomes it causes inflation or enables people to buy more stuff (iPhones) or whatever until they're spending the same percentage. Aside from not actually saving the extra income, the obvious downside is to screw single people by raising prices without raising their income.

I do not think this has much to do with it.

The much larger sources of volatility would be massive increase in labor supply due to other countries coming "online", women entering workforce (this might be overstated), immigrants entering workforce. And all of that was coupled with huge advances in automation, namely computer software, and then the internet. Although advances in farming and manufacturing automation cannot be overstated either.

Both labor supply and labor demand curves shifted the price of labor down for "unskilled" labor.

The other societal impact that is large is women gaining independence, therefore impacting the couples markets. Due to our biology or sociology or whatever, typically, people are going to seek out mates in equal or higher socioeconomic classes with more economic stability. This results in high earners pairing with high earners, competing with other dual high earning couples.

Finally, birth control reduces need to form families while still satisfying biological urges. I know quite a few people sitting out the family thing because they were unable to find an acceptable partner per their requirements. I think this is being seen in general in all developed countries via the plummeting birth rates.

All in all, people have a lot more information available than they used to, and a lot more control of their bodies, and the conclusion for many is the cost:benefit:volatility ratio of starting families is not worth it.

Re: Lifetime Earnings in the United States over Six Decades

#46

Who knew such an admiral goal: "having women entering the workforce en mass" would have such a depressing result: "it is now much more difficult for a family to survive on one income" What is the solution? Obviously, we would like to keep moving forward and allow anyone that is willing and able to do the job they want, but if anyone would like to be with their children, or take time off while a spouse works, that sho…

>> Who knew such an admiral goal: "having women entering the workforce en mass" would have such a depressing result: "it is now much more difficult for a family to survive on one income" That's kind of expected. Our society/economy/marketing are designed to get people to spend 100 percent of their income or more. So when families get 2 incomes it causes inflation or enables people to buy more stuff (iPhones) or whate…

It's hard to convince people to spend responsibly when the government spends irresponsibly, spirals into debt and lets the money printers run overtime.

Re: Lifetime Earnings in the United States over Six Decades

#47
post #27

Who knew such an admiral goal: "having women entering the workforce en mass" would have such a depressing result: "it is now much more difficult for a family to survive on one income" What is the solution? Obviously, we would like to keep moving forward and allow anyone that is willing and able to do the job they want, but if anyone would like to be with their children, or take time off while a spouse works, that sho…

An idea that I really like is to do what countries like Singapore and the Scandinavian countries do: create a public sovereign wealth fund, and then do what States like Alaska do: divert the dividends from the fund directly to the people. Alaska's Permanent Fund is only allowed to invest in Alaskan companies and is "only" $75B in size ( https://www.alaskajournal.com/2021-02-24/fund-continues-bull... ), and even then…

I think one way to populate the fund is require the assets purchased by the Fed during bailouts to be held by the sovereign wealth fund.

Re: Lifetime Earnings in the United States over Six Decades

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just means it's now harder for families to make it on a single income that used to be the responsibility of the father. This drives wages lower as we're seeing and makes it harder on everyone.

It also means women have more independence and freedom.

Not necessarily, is selling your body on prostitution websites more freedom? I think not. It's known what women face in a secular captialism-first economy.

Re: Lifetime Earnings in the United States over Six Decades

#49
post #27

Who knew such an admiral goal: "having women entering the workforce en mass" would have such a depressing result: "it is now much more difficult for a family to survive on one income" What is the solution? Obviously, we would like to keep moving forward and allow anyone that is willing and able to do the job they want, but if anyone would like to be with their children, or take time off while a spouse works, that sho…

An idea that I really like is to do what countries like Singapore and the Scandinavian countries do: create a public sovereign wealth fund, and then do what States like Alaska do: divert the dividends from the fund directly to the people. Alaska's Permanent Fund is only allowed to invest in Alaskan companies and is "only" $75B in size ( https://www.alaskajournal.com/2021-02-24/fund-continues-bull... ), and even then…

The thing I worry about Universal Income, which the Alaska situation seems to be, is that there will be a bifurcation of people who need the UI and spend it every month and the people who put it into an investment. I guess if the checks keep coming it is not an issue, but if there is an event where the UI has to stop there will be a lot of pain. I think some sort of forced savings, that is only able to drawn upon at a certain age or for certain catastrophes is required. I guess you can only prevent people from being stupid so much, but what sometimes seems stupid is just people doing what the have to, to survive.

I think the sovereign wealth funds have a lot of the same problems the social security has. Politicians will borrow against it and never pay it back. From what I have heard some middle eastern countries had a sovereign wealth fund that was mismanaged, I guess if you have a competent government it is fine, but you don't always get to decide that.

Overall, I agree with you that both of these are a good way to distribute society's prosperity to the people.

Re: Lifetime Earnings in the United States over Six Decades

#50
post #27

Who knew such an admiral goal: "having women entering the workforce en mass" would have such a depressing result: "it is now much more difficult for a family to survive on one income" What is the solution? Obviously, we would like to keep moving forward and allow anyone that is willing and able to do the job they want, but if anyone would like to be with their children, or take time off while a spouse works, that sho…

An idea that I really like is to do what countries like Singapore and the Scandinavian countries do: create a public sovereign wealth fund, and then do what States like Alaska do: divert the dividends from the fund directly to the people. Alaska's Permanent Fund is only allowed to invest in Alaskan companies and is "only" $75B in size ( https://www.alaskajournal.com/2021-02-24/fund-continues-bull... ), and even then…

> By scaling up the size and scope of the fund, you can conceivably get to a place where the dividend can work out to $10k+ per person per year.

We've done that, except the dividends to go to a few rich families instead of to everyone.

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