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Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#231

Post by xvector »

ffggvv wrote: post #64
sutherland wrote: post #6

This is part of Tesla's plan to transition to a vision-only system: - FUD-free Tesla Daily coverage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3zsmZx4kfA - Details from Tesla: https://www.tesla.com/support/transitioning-tesla-vision

their decision to sell their auto kill software at all kills people. but they don’t care. as long as elon gets his pumps

This is correct. Tesla’s MO is implementing the “move fast and break things” methodology on real human beings in safety-critical situations. I don’t understand how anyone can support this. It should be illegal.

I own a Model 3 and it will be my last Tesla.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#232

Post by nickik »

c0nsumer wrote: post #5

With a feature being pulled from already-sold vehicles, I wonder if this'll run into some Lemon Law issues. Because the vehicle no longer does what was sold, which is specifically protected by law in many states.

They are actually improving features. This actually FIXES a major issue with the current system. Radar false positives have been the single most complained about problem with Autopilot.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#233

Post by xvector »

theopsguy wrote: post #160
philjohn wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about conditions such as fog?

Human drive in fog just fine with pure vision, why can’t AI do the same? Keep in mind that vision is needed in all cases for lane keeping at the very minimum. So if vision is not able to see in fog, it won’t be able to self drive even radar is working.

> Human drive in fog just fine with pure vision, why can’t AI do the same?

Humans also use real intelligence and higher-order thought when driving. Humans also have stereo vision.

Unless you’re telling me that Tesla has invented AGI, the comparison is absurd.

In the meantime, Tesla can’t even get my auto wipers right.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#234

Post by emkoemko »

jonplackett wrote: post #129
dmm wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence. I think it will happen but only by making many expensive, intrusive changes to our cities and roads to accommodate "self-driving" cars.

I think we still must be missing something very fundamental with the way we’re doing AI. When you look at nature and see a tiny bee or fly navigating perfectly around all sorts of obstacles, including the newspaper I’m trying to swat it with, using just that teeny tiny brain running of mili-watts of power with just compound eyes to guide it. And in 3D space not a nice flat surface. But we still can’t make a car not d…

well can't we just clone a human brain maybe one from like a F1 driver and stick them in cars ? problem solved..

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#235

Post by JoshTko »

justapassenger wrote: post #226
popz41 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full Self Driving actually counts as deferred revenue to Tesla, and is reported as a liability on the balance sheet. They cant realize that income until the feature is delivered.

They already recognized large part of that revenue. That was the main reason for them to release half baked party tricks, like smart summon, or weird ones like traffic light control (that will stop your on green light). They used it to recognize more FSD revenue. In 2020 they booked over $250M of that revenue, to help them boost profits. Don't underestimate power of accounting, mixed with loose ethics.

Interesting. Do you have a source that confirms this?

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#236

Post by jfrunyon »

wpietri wrote: post #136
ghoward wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More people need to see your comment because there seems to be a belief that full self driving is just around the corner. However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence. In your case, the new lane was clearly marked, which just shows how weak the system really is. Imagine if there was snow covering the lane markings. Or sunlight reflecting off of the road confuses the visio…

Yup. Rodney Brooks, famed robot scientist and iRobot founder, says not to expect driverless taxis in cities earlier than 2035: https://rodneybrooks.com/my-dated-predictions/ I don't think we quite need AGI to make something like a commercial urban taxi service work. For any given place, we can substitute a very large amount of training data. And I think we can get there through an approach like Waymo, where the taxi'…

We've already seen several instances of Waymo's approach not working.

I agree that ultimately they need a significant amount of local training data. But I believe they would be better off having a human drive a car around to map things out, run their 'AI' on the results, and then manually review/correct lower confidence results. Or, better yet, make a database and have cities provide feeds of changes/permits/closures.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#237

Post by xvector »

bosswipe wrote: post #35

The tell that their vision tech is not as good as radar is that their high end models, S and X, are keeping the radar.

And also the fact that existing vehicles are keeping radar.

And also the fact that Tesla says certain features like Autopilot may not work for some time until vision-based proximity is “ready.”

That’s the biggest tell. If vision-based proximity was working, they’d roll it out to everyone and it would not be restricted off the bat.

Instead it is clear that they are using new drivers as an A/B test or canary, because they are not yet confident their system is safe.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#238

Post by wearywanderer »

nickik wrote: post #228
wearywanderer wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're probably right, and I came to believe this strongly when I heard about the electric F-150 a few days ago. If Ford can make a electric truck that works properly and has all the spare parts availability / 3rd party repairability of a normal truck, then cybertruck seems DOA. Some fanboys might buy it for the memes, but if I intended to buy a truck to actually use as a truck , the choice between these two…

Even if you assume a conversion ratio of 20% for Cybertruck and F-150 reservation, Ford couldn't build that many EV trucks in 3 years. The idea that the Cybertruck who has 100ks of reservations and beats the F-150 on pretty much every technical metric will not sell well is just nonsense. > actually use as a truck So people who 'actually use' a truck don't want to drive long distance or transport a lot of cargo? Or ch…

> What's your objective measure other then the look of the Cybertruck are you applying here.

What is your objective basis for believing I have said anything about the appearance of cybertruck? My comment talks about availability of spare parts and third party repair. Tesla vehicles are notoriously poor in these regards. You seem to have read quite a lot that I did not write (Tesla fanboys seem to do this a lot.)

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#239

Post by nickik »

computerex wrote: post #220
graiz wrote: post #123

Tesla is a great at many things but managing customer/media expectations isn't among them. I'm sure Elon has the data and will tweet why vision is better, he may even back it up with really good data, but it's reactionary media management rather than preventative. How hard would it have been to write a press release explaining why they are removing radar, what it means to safety, and how it impacts the future of self…

They are in a pickle due to the chip shortage. There are no good technical reasons for removing the radar sensors. What would they say?

Nonsense. They have been talking about removing radar for a while, that was always part of the plan.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#240

Post by masklinn »

rootusrootus wrote: post #190
notJim wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most Americans never leave their hometown This can't possibly be right. Maybe they never move away , but never leave a radius of 200 miles from their home town? Do you have a cite for that?

Forbes [0] claims 11% have never left their state, but it doesn't cite a number for people who have never left their town. It has to be smaller, of course. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-o...

Meaning 89% have left their state, to say nothing of their hometown. So GP is totally wrong.

Not to mention there are many states you might not get out of in 200 miles. 200 miles from the Californian coast is still Cali unless you’re at the northern or southern edges.

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