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Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#171

Post by gher-shyu3i »

jonplackett wrote: post #129
dmm wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence. I think it will happen but only by making many expensive, intrusive changes to our cities and roads to accommodate "self-driving" cars.

I think we still must be missing something very fundamental with the way we’re doing AI. When you look at nature and see a tiny bee or fly navigating perfectly around all sorts of obstacles, including the newspaper I’m trying to swat it with, using just that teeny tiny brain running of mili-watts of power with just compound eyes to guide it. And in 3D space not a nice flat surface. But we still can’t make a car not d…

You're literally asking humans to create life. This is strictly the Creator's domain.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#172

Post by xvector »

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

I have had experiences (plural) like this in my Model 3 too.

I will never buy Tesla again. I don’t think Tesla realizes how much goodwill they are destroying.

For example, /r/TeslaMotors is fairly critical of the company these days where it used to be cultish and fanatical.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#173

Post by qbasic_forever »

chronic83027 wrote: post #27

- Tesla is lacking radar modules due to chip shortage - As a result, Tesla can’t make vehicles - Tesla (as always) is cutting it close to making a profit - Therefore, sell cars without radar - This “profit squeeze” is corroborated by this week’s (May 27) increase in vehicle prices by $500-$2,000, the reintroduction of enhanced autopilot for $4,000 and Elon trying to pump n dump crypto again with his “crypto eco-overs…

I'm surprised more folks haven't made the connection that the chip shortage is causing drastic changes to manufacturing like this. Some new trucks have gotten rid of their navigation systems, backup cameras, etc. because they can't source the chips: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-06/chip-shor... Things are getting somewhat dire for manufacturing.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#174

Post by vmception »

nemothekid wrote: post #85
gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

If you are in the Bay Area, I think I know exactly what intersection you are talking about and I'm surprised it hasn't been fix. Someone died in a Model X at that intersection a couple years ago. https://mv-voice.com/news/2018/03/23/car-fire-closes-lanes-o...

I remember that too

My confidence in semi-self driving cars was that crashes and mishaps would all get auto-updated to all the cars at once, leading to a greater library of exceptions to consider, which would be an upgrade from humans

But if that hasn't happened for that one spot in 3 years, I'm out.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#175

Post by sorenjan »

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

I've seen several videos of Tesla's autopilot getting confused by road markings and steering towards obstacles as a result. Using fewer sensors gives you less information, which seems like a bad idea for something as critical and difficult as automated driving on public roads. It's strange that Tesla's been getting away with unmet promises and dangerous behavior for years now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVJSjeHDvfY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKyUqZDYwrU

https://youtu.be/6QSsKy0I9LE?t=82

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqURFUcl5NI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jheBCOpE9ws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTu3blQa3qk

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#176

Post by tibbydudeza »

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

Keep believing in the dream - will be fixed in the next FSD beta.

I wonder how their codebase looks like - neural net training model for a slightly wobbly Amish buggy crossing the road in rural Pennsylvania during Rumspringa.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#177

Post by valine »

moojd wrote: post #150
valine wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are proof that's its possible to safely drive a car with pure vision. Pretty sure no human has ever propulsively landed a rocket on earth using nothing but vision.

I don't think humans are a good benchmark for what we should expect from FSD.

Not in the short term for sure. I've been pretty impressed with the FSD beta videos circulating youtube though. It's better than you would expect for a non-geofenced, vision based self driving system.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#178

Post by rootusrootus »

mbreese wrote: post #72
c0nsumer wrote: post #5

With a feature being pulled from already-sold vehicles, I wonder if this'll run into some Lemon Law issues. Because the vehicle no longer does what was sold, which is specifically protected by law in many states.

> pulled from already-sold vehicles The radar was pulled from already ordered vehicles. The sale isn't finalized until pickup. I assume they would allow the order to be canceled at least.

The feature is intended to be removed from all vehicles, though, the radar will be turned off according to Tesla.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#179

Post by wearywanderer »

wpietri wrote: post #143
jonplackett wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we still must be missing something very fundamental with the way we’re doing AI. When you look at nature and see a tiny bee or fly navigating perfectly around all sorts of obstacles, including the newspaper I’m trying to swat it with, using just that teeny tiny brain running of mili-watts of power with just compound eyes to guide it. And in 3D space not a nice flat surface. But we still can’t make a car not d…

We surely are missing a lot. But nature has picked easier problems with a fly. They are small enough to be very robust; flying into things is no problem. They're also cheap to build and incredibly numerous. Flies, well, drop like flies. If we had a similar tolerance for car crashes, existing levels of automation would be fine.

Even human brains, with all their capabilities, get the job done for 20 watts (or something in that order of magnitude.) Who even knows how much power we'd need for equivalent results from the best specialized silicon we have? I think you might burn a hundred gigawatts and still not get comparable results. Something is clearly wrong with our approach. It should be possible to do much more with much less, but there is some piece of the puzzle we're missing.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#180

Post by soheil »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #10
c0nsumer wrote: post #5

With a feature being pulled from already-sold vehicles, I wonder if this'll run into some Lemon Law issues. Because the vehicle no longer does what was sold, which is specifically protected by law in many states.

This only applies to new vehicles that ship without the radar module. Tesla is switching to vision-only but the vision-only system hasn't been tested by the NHTSA. Nothing has changed for vehicles that have already shipped with radar modules.

Not true. If you made a reservation and signed the paperwork to take delivery in 4-11 weeks (more like 11 weeks as of now) the radar will be stripped from the car you're getting, it won't be the car you paid for. I think this is a good move by Tesla regardless and makes them focus on improving vision. No lidar and now no radar.
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