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Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#141

Post by gher-shyu3i »

ghoward wrote: post #96
gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

More people need to see your comment because there seems to be a belief that full self driving is just around the corner. However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence. In your case, the new lane was clearly marked, which just shows how weak the system really is. Imagine if there was snow covering the lane markings. Or sunlight reflecting off of the road confuses the visio…

> it needs a full artificial general intelligence.

How do you define full AGI?

On a side note, another approach would be to have sensors in the roads that would transmit boundary information. That might be too expensive and difficult to maintain though.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#142

Post by tqi »

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

It feels like Tesla's pitch for it's current iteration of self driving is that it is akin to spotting someone who is lifting weights. Sure you are paying attention the entire time, but it's much less demanding that lifting the weight yourself. However to me it's more like if you were spotting the spotter. Most of the time you can get away with just being on your phone or zoning out, but to do it right you basically have to spend the same amount of energy as the primary spotter.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#143

Post by wpietri »

jonplackett wrote: post #129
dmm wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence. I think it will happen but only by making many expensive, intrusive changes to our cities and roads to accommodate "self-driving" cars.

I think we still must be missing something very fundamental with the way we’re doing AI. When you look at nature and see a tiny bee or fly navigating perfectly around all sorts of obstacles, including the newspaper I’m trying to swat it with, using just that teeny tiny brain running of mili-watts of power with just compound eyes to guide it. And in 3D space not a nice flat surface. But we still can’t make a car not d…

We surely are missing a lot. But nature has picked easier problems with a fly. They are small enough to be very robust; flying into things is no problem. They're also cheap to build and incredibly numerous. Flies, well, drop like flies. If we had a similar tolerance for car crashes, existing levels of automation would be fine.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#144

Post by lostmsu »

nemothekid wrote: post #85
gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

If you are in the Bay Area, I think I know exactly what intersection you are talking about and I'm surprised it hasn't been fix. Someone died in a Model X at that intersection a couple years ago. https://mv-voice.com/news/2018/03/23/car-fire-closes-lanes-o...

Is there a picture of the place with no median?

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#145

Post by simias »

dmm wrote: post #109
ghoward wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More people need to see your comment because there seems to be a belief that full self driving is just around the corner. However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence. In your case, the new lane was clearly marked, which just shows how weak the system really is. Imagine if there was snow covering the lane markings. Or sunlight reflecting off of the road confuses the visio…

> However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence. I think it will happen but only by making many expensive, intrusive changes to our cities and roads to accommodate "self-driving" cars.

I agree that it could work. I'm not sure I'd want that because I expect that it would make those roads very hostile to pedestrians since you'd probably want to forbid them from crossing outside of designated areas and only when authorized. You'll probably need some dividing walls between the street and the sidewalk.

In many countries it would be a huge culture shift, and IMO a step in the wrong direction. We don't need more urban real-estate devoted to cars.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#146

Post by pmastela »

jdhn wrote: post #107
Lendal wrote: post #55

The irritating thing is it's all so unnecessary. My Tesla is a great car. But I paid an extra $10,000 for a feature that was promised but still hasn't been fully delivered, FSD. It feels like I paid extra for my awesome car to be sabotaged. What was promised by FSD was never going to be possible, and yet they are doubling down. They need to stop this idiocy. The vision system is horrible. The car stops at green light…

>But I paid an extra $10,000 for a feature that was promised but still hasn't been fully delivered As far as I'm concerned, that $10k is basically an interest free loan to Tesla. FSD as promised by Elon is going to take decades, and the worst part is that it's not even transferable from one car to another.

> the worst part is that it's not even transferable from one car to another.

That would make sense to do it that way: Sell FSD as some sort of license that always works in any Tesla one drives.

How does it currently work? If someone sells their Tesla does the FSD package follow the car or does the new owner need to purchase FSD for that car?

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#147

Post by IncRnd »

wombatmobile wrote: post #104
gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

What's meta disturbing about autopilot is the argument that it could save X lives a year, by cutting the road toll from Y down to Z. For that statement to be a validation for legalising autopilot for open usage, the bar for Z needs to be a lot lower than Y. It needs to be zero or else we would be blessing fatal bugs.

Related to what you wrote, I strongly disagree with the argument that some people make, where it is said X lives were saved. But, what they are really saying is that Y people, who wouldn't otherwise die, were killed by the new technology, yet overall fewer died! What good is any technology if it is known to kill people who would otherwise be alive?

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#148

Post by computerex »

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

As someone who works with ML/data science for my day job, you couldn't pay me to enable AP and sit in the front seat on a public road.

Unless Tesla gets LIDAR I'm not getting in one with the AP enabled.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#149

Post by wpietri »

Lendal wrote: post #55

The irritating thing is it's all so unnecessary. My Tesla is a great car. But I paid an extra $10,000 for a feature that was promised but still hasn't been fully delivered, FSD. It feels like I paid extra for my awesome car to be sabotaged. What was promised by FSD was never going to be possible, and yet they are doubling down. They need to stop this idiocy. The vision system is horrible. The car stops at green light…

I feel for you, but I would not expect them to "stop this idiocy". Tesla has climbed the hype ladder to incredible heights. One can't just step off that ladder.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#150

Post by moojd »

valine wrote: post #116
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone tell me if SpaceX's tail-landing rockets are vision-only systems? Street vehicle navigation seems at least as difficult as nailing a rocket landing.

Humans are proof that's its possible to safely drive a car with pure vision. Pretty sure no human has ever propulsively landed a rocket on earth using nothing but vision.

I don't think humans are a good benchmark for what we should expect from FSD.
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