Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#121

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, May 27, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

chronic83027 wrote: post #27

- Tesla is lacking radar modules due to chip shortage - As a result, Tesla can’t make vehicles - Tesla (as always) is cutting it close to making a profit - Therefore, sell cars without radar - This “profit squeeze” is corroborated by this week’s (May 27) increase in vehicle prices by $500-$2,000, the reintroduction of enhanced autopilot for $4,000 and Elon trying to pump n dump crypto again with his “crypto eco-overs…

I think Tesla is very close to a do-or-die situation. They are in severe danger of being disrupted by the very automakers they took on. If they can't make a profit with the current market conditions (and they haven't, right? their profit is entirely due to credits?), I just don't think it's necessarily going to get any easier as time goes on. EVs are commodities.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#122

Post by masklinn » Thu, May 27, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

ghoward wrote: post #96

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

More people need to see your comment because there seems to be a belief that full self driving is just around the corner. However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence. In your case, the new lane was clearly marked, which just shows how weak the system really is. Imagine if there was snow covering the lane markings. Or sunlight reflecting off of the road confuses the visio…

> More people need to see your comment because there seems to be a belief that full self driving is just around the corner. However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence.

People who were not convinced by autopilot shoving cars under trucks are not going to get convinced by one more anecdote.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#123

Post by graiz » Thu, May 27, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

Tesla is a great at many things but managing customer/media expectations isn't among them. I'm sure Elon has the data and will tweet why vision is better, he may even back it up with really good data, but it's reactionary media management rather than preventative.

How hard would it have been to write a press release explaining why they are removing radar, what it means to safety, and how it impacts the future of self-driving?

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#124

Post by HighPlainsDrftr » Thu, May 27, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

takeda wrote: post #63

justaguy88 wrote: post #14

So if we were going to purchase one soon, should we instead wait for this to be fixed?

From what I understand they are transitioning from radar do vision only. The problem was that software engineers missed the deadline. They will provide that in a software update, it will be just a period of time for new Teslas where the feature is not available. There's no point to wait, since you will eventually get it in update, and if you want the radar you will have to buy used model. Personally I don't believe v…

I've been wondering about this myself. I drive in bad weather all the time. Sometimes its blowing snow, sometimes its because the DOT can't keep the road clear. I often can't see the white strip - or even the yellow strip on the road and have to gauge where I'm at by finding reflector poles.

Two lanes will turn down to one, and back to two really quickly (snow removal). Toss in 60-80MPH wind gusts, and it really is a test.

Add in wild critters, inexperienced drivers, impatient drivers, and it can be a bit insane.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#125

Post by aplummer » Thu, May 27, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

With people hyping it and putting our lives in danger like this https://mobile.twitter.com/Scobleizer/status/139541771021799... (no hands on wheel) we’ve got plenty of tragedy to come

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#126

Post by snypher » Thu, May 27, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

bradfitz wrote: post #70

harles wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t Subaru use stereo vision though? Having depth cues and not having them seems like a pretty big distinction, and Tesla just removed their only source of depth.

Tesla has multiple cameras on the front. See: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36542541/tesla-model-3-mo...

They don't seem very far apart in the Tesla..

https://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2017/07/Tesla-Mode...

The Subaru cameras are either side of the mirror, probably much more effective for stereo vision.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#127

Post by nathanaldensr » Thu, May 27, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

vishnugupta wrote: post #111

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

For me this is a big drawback of half-baked autopilot. It takes us humans time to engage in a split second and react to surroundings even if they are monitoring it. When driving I'm constantly updating my situation awareness by doing a 360 degree scan every few seconds and I'm 100% engaged with the car so I know which way to safely swerve, what happens if I slam the brakes etc.,. With this auto-pilot-assist I'm monit…

Right; you're practicing inductive logic--something computers can't do--at all times, thus essentially predicting possible futures. Until this ability is present in software, there won't be an adequate replacement.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#128

Post by bengale » Thu, May 27, 2021, 7:45 PM UTC

takeda wrote: post #63

justaguy88 wrote: post #14

So if we were going to purchase one soon, should we instead wait for this to be fixed?

From what I understand they are transitioning from radar do vision only. The problem was that software engineers missed the deadline. They will provide that in a software update, it will be just a period of time for new Teslas where the feature is not available. There's no point to wait, since you will eventually get it in update, and if you want the radar you will have to buy used model. Personally I don't believe v…

> The argument could be that drivers also only use vision, but other cars do come with radars to supplement driver's vision.

I don’t buy this argument at all, a lot of drivers are absolutely terrible. I think we should be making automated vehicles better than humans.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#129

Post by jonplackett » Thu, May 27, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

dmm wrote: post #109

ghoward wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More people need to see your comment because there seems to be a belief that full self driving is just around the corner. However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence. In your case, the new lane was clearly marked, which just shows how weak the system really is. Imagine if there was snow covering the lane markings. Or sunlight reflecting off of the road confuses the visio…

> However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence. I think it will happen but only by making many expensive, intrusive changes to our cities and roads to accommodate "self-driving" cars.

I think we still must be missing something very fundamental with the way we’re doing AI.

When you look at nature and see a tiny bee or fly navigating perfectly around all sorts of obstacles, including the newspaper I’m trying to swat it with, using just that teeny tiny brain running of mili-watts of power with just compound eyes to guide it. And in 3D space not a nice flat surface.

But we still can’t make a car not drive into a massive concrete barrier?

Something is off. But that gives me hope that there’s a discovery waiting to be made that can fix it.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#130

Post by shepherdjerred » Thu, May 27, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

Autopilot is terrifying. I've been a huge admirer of Tesla for years. I've always wanted a Tesla. I test drove a Model 3 a few weeks ago and had a very negative experience. Auto-pilot/FSD are enabled in different ways (one pull of a stalk vs two). It shows up on the center screen as a small blue dot. There were times I wasn't sure if it was engaged, or if I needed to take control. Since the screen is to the right I had to take my eyes off of the road.

Part of the problem is me not trusting the car, but it's also because the system isn't very intuitive.