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Persian legends and their Western counterparts (2020)

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Re: Persian legends and their Western counterparts (2020)

#21

Post by OnlyMortal »

geijoenr wrote: post #17
OnlyMortal wrote: post #15

It’s not surprising that the tales are similar. It’s not like Persia was disconnected from the Greeks, Egyptians or even the Romans. I imagine a good tale went in all directions. The epic of Gilgamesh been an obvious candidate.

Comparative mythology is a field of study. Is is well known there are common Indo-European roots for many myths that are similar across a number of cultures and religions, including Norse one.

TIL. It’s an interesting subject, for sure, given we incorrectly generally consider ancient peoples isolated.

It’s obviously untrue given Alexander The Great and the peoples who traversed the Mediterranean, like the Phoenicians.

As for Northern Europe, I understand that a Buddha was dug up in a Swedish Viking era burial site.

My point been, some people travelled far for trading reasons.

Re: Persian legends and their Western counterparts (2020)

#22

Post by cmrdporcupine »

geraneum wrote: post #13
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #10

As some of the comments in the article point out, some of the commonalities may because the legends may be referencing older Indo-European legends which both European and Persian cultures have in common. In addition, especially after 300 BC, with the conquests of Alexander the Great, Greek culture spread throughout much of the region. The Parthians were actually very much fans of Greek culture.

The book "Shahname", translated to "The Book of Kings" which is referenced in the article is not the first occurrence of these legends and mythologies. They are a collection made of much older folklore stories. While you can find Iranian girls nowadays named "Helia" or "Atena" which came from greek (a testament to Greek influence) but these legends date back to before the Greek invasion. But yes, as you mentioned, th…

And in cultures that were adjacent to them. Check out the "Nart sagas", oral sagas recorded by the northwest Caucasian language speakers who were neighbours of the Yamnaya/proto-Indo-Europeans. Their sagas have lots of elements with huge overlap with classic Indo-European stories.

Re: Persian legends and their Western counterparts (2020)

#23

Post by jk7tarYZAQNpTQa »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #9

If the idea of common motifs through different cultures and mythologies interests you I highly recommend this 6 part interview with Joseph Campbell, who was the author of “The Hero with 1000 Faces” and an expert in the field. Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers.

> Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers

https://archive.org/details/josephcampbellandthepowerofmyth0...

Re: Persian legends and their Western counterparts (2020)

#24

Post by jk7tarYZAQNpTQa »

monkeybutton wrote: post #11

Does anyone have a recommendation for English translated collections of Persian folklore and mythology?

The Shahnameh is a good start. IIRC there's a high quality bilingual (English and Persian) version of it, with drawings and all. If you prefer it in podcast version, Mazandercast [1] spends a few minutes of each episode to narrate it. The rest of the episode is spent explaining traditions, festivities, etc. A good podcast if you're interested in overall Persian culture and history.

Of course another good book is "One Thousand and One Nights".

[1] https://open.spotify.com/show/4wOrW7rq5g4HZpSbi3nvwl?si=Ft_t...

Re: Persian legends and their Western counterparts (2020)

#25

Post by monkeybutton »

jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote: post #24
monkeybutton wrote: post #11

Does anyone have a recommendation for English translated collections of Persian folklore and mythology?

The Shahnameh is a good start. IIRC there's a high quality bilingual (English and Persian) version of it, with drawings and all. If you prefer it in podcast version, Mazandercast [1] spends a few minutes of each episode to narrate it. The rest of the episode is spent explaining traditions, festivities, etc. A good podcast if you're interested in overall Persian culture and history. Of course another good book is "One…

Thank you! What got me interested in the first place was seeing some pages of the Shahnameh on display at the Aga Khan Museum in Toronto: https://agakhanmuseum.org/collection/artifact/isfandiyar-kil...

Re: Persian legends and their Western counterparts (2020)

#26

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

>> While poring over Persian myths and legends for my upcoming novel, Girl, Serpent, Thorn, I was always delightfully surprised whenever I came across a story that sounded familiar to me from my western upbringing.

Here, the author of the article is advertising her book. I see this very often- I'm reading an article on an online publication and the author suddendly and more or less surreptitiously inserts a reference to the latest book they have published and that is currently being sold.

I confess I find this a bit annoying, especially when the subject of the book is unrelated to the subject of the article. I understand that authors must take every opportunity to promote their work, exactly in the same way as everyone else [1].

What I wonder is, is this something that authors are asked to do by agents or publishers? Or is it something an author decides upon him or herself? Is it more common for an author to advertise their recently published books in an article they write, or is it more common not to?

_______________________

Here's my latest published paper:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10994-020-05945-w

Re: Persian legends and their Western counterparts (2020)

#27

Post by ArtWomb »

Not Persian mythos (which is an endless fountain of joy), but I recently stumbled upon an Ur-source of Ancient Greek transmission to Modern Europe: Ibn Tufail's Improvement of Human Reason. From the first page one can feel its resonance and shocking modernity. From Galileo through Newton and von Humboldt down to the modern philosophical novels of Sartre and Camus ;)

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/16831

Re: Persian legends and their Western counterparts (2020)

#28

Post by drknownuffin »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #12
camjohnson26 wrote: post #9

If the idea of common motifs through different cultures and mythologies interests you I highly recommend this 6 part interview with Joseph Campbell, who was the author of “The Hero with 1000 Faces” and an expert in the field. Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers.

While Joseph Campbell (who was not an actual “expert in the field” for most of what he wrote about) has a big reputation among the public because he wrote books directed towards a popular audience, and e.g. George Lucas's praise of his work for Star Wars guaranteed him renown, he is not taken very seriously by actual specialists on folklore and anthropology. IMO, citing him does more harm than good.

My understanding from my readings in the field of mythology is that the parent post is precisely correct: Campbell was an enthusiastic amateur who did a whole bunch of cherry-picking to suit his passionate holding-forth on the topics, but without systematic study.

If he was alive today, he (still) wouldn't be a PhD, but he'd have a YT channel, a vigorously active twitter page, and maybe have penned a couple of D&D modules.

Re: Persian legends and their Western counterparts (2020)

#29

Post by drknownuffin »

gen220 wrote: post #20
turadg wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What authors or works would you recommend instead?

The difficulty with folklore is that it’s so intensely regional and period-specific, and that no real “canon” exists for most regions and times, especially when you’re reaching back into pre-christianity folklore. This is the mistake that Campbell made. He thought you could unify folklore with some psychological frameworks. But you can’t, unless you’re employing gratuitous selection bias, which he did. So it depends…

I second this statement.

Russian Folk Belief by Ivanits is a good one.

Re: Persian legends and their Western counterparts (2020)

#30

Post by autarch »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #26

>> While poring over Persian myths and legends for my upcoming novel, Girl, Serpent, Thorn, I was always delightfully surprised whenever I came across a story that sounded familiar to me from my western upbringing. Here, the author of the article is advertising her book. I see this very often- I'm reading an article on an online publication and the author suddendly and more or less surreptitiously inserts a reference…

This is published on tor.com. Tor is a publisher of SF/F books. The author wrote an SF/F book for Flatiron Books, a publisher with the same parent company, Macmillan. So clearly this article is part of her book's marketing.
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