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Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

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Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#411

Post by mbrodersen »

phone8675309 wrote: post #14
aspaviento wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a politician complaining about having difficulties with a salary of 6000€/mo. Some people live in a bubble so far from the real world that almost seems fantasy.

I had a coworker at my first programming job complaining how hard it was to make it on a $175,000 a year salary in the Midwest. It was nearly three times what I was making and I thought "I can manage with so much less, wtf is this person’s problem?"

The problem is that people (in general) always want more than they can afford. Which is why some people making (say) $1million a year struggle because they take on too much debt and have trouble paying down the interest. Millionaires go bankrupt all the time.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#412

Post by dang »

atatatat wrote: post #33

The financial planning bit is meant to come before one has a list of expenses to "figure out" (like home+leased car+children).

Please don't start flamewars on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27246064.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#413

Post by atatatat »

c22 wrote: post #333
BeetleB wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only wrong thing you've said here is "I'm not a leftie". > Why do you reject that generally accurate label? Because most of what he wrote aligns with libertarianism, which is generally not considered left.

If you're just thinking about the political spectrum from left to right , you're missing some nuance. There is a conservative progressive axis as well as a libertarian authoritarian one. It is well not to get these conflated or mixed up.

Right, but that doesn't help keep people divided and focused on fighting each other.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#414

Post by wpietri »

detritus wrote: post #129
wpietri wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question! It was 4. While waiting for the press I'd deflash [1] the set that were cool enough to put to the grinder and stack them for transport to the next station. Those doing the math will note that in theory 67 seconds would allow for 1716 rims per 8-hour shift. But it took time to open it, get them out, and close it again. The machine never stopped; breaks were handled by somebody coming along and taking ov…

Crikey! Thanks. That's still a heck of a lot of work in those hours, with very little downtime. I do a lot of 'proceduralised' jobs, but I'm 'lucky' in that I get to define and hone the procedure and then it tends only to be necessary for a few hours or a day or three, before I move onto something else entirely. I get a wee quick out of making things more efficient, then get to move on before my brain calcifies. The…

Totally. I only did factory work as summer jobs and loved it because it was fun to learn a new domain and try to optimize things. But yeah, I would have been deathly bored eventually.

Interestingly, Toyota's factory culture is very different. It's part of company philosophy to seek continuous improvement. They're also big on cross-training and investing in staff. Basically, they respect that hands come with brains, and that it's worth engaging both. I suspect I would have enjoyed that much more. If you're curious, the This American Life show on NUMMI gets at the contrast between the two approaches.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#415

Post by medvezhenok »

ctchocula wrote: post #352
medvezhenok wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned higher up in the thread, but this is exactly why we need UBI. UBI gives the poor some leverage to avoid being exploited due to circumstance(s). Yes, we will get some inflation - but I don't see that as bad. A lot of the reason we have very low inflation right now is because the balance is skewed too far in favor of capital over labor (and that is due to being able to offshore - which should be penalized a…

I used to think UBI was the solution, but it has a severe risk of creating a permanent underclass. Then I learned about a Federal Job Guarantee where if the private sector chooses not to provide jobs then the Federal govt will step in and become the job provider of last resort with salaries going for a living wage. This is a stronger guarantee than merely a minimum wage, because companies will just cut jobs in a smal…

UBI has the advantage of people being able to re-skill to take advantage of market opportunities (people going back to school for engineering, say), as well as accounting for situations like stay-at-home parents, so I think it has certain advantages over a Federal Jobs guarantee.

That said, I don't see why we can't have both (A base level of UBI + a federal jobs guarantee)

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#416

Post by LocalPCGuy »

gruez wrote: post #84
LocalPCGuy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked at the psychology of decision making when poor and struggling? It might open your eyes as to why people don't make the optimal choices (financially or others). And a lot of people literally do not know any better. They've never had someone teach them how to manage money and potentially had bad role models growing up. So its easy for you to say, with the knowledge it seems like you have, this is what y…

> Have you looked at the psychology of decision making when poor and struggling? It might open your eyes as to why people don't make the optimal choices (financially or others). Where does "psychology of decision making when poor and struggling" stop and personal responsibility begin? Can every suboptimal decision be excused because of "psychology of decision making when poor and struggling"?

There is a difference between "explaining" and "excusing". There is a level of personal responsibility that needs to happen. But we also, as a society, need to understand the reasons that people make sub-optimal decisions and work to provide valid ways people can learn to make better ones. I'm not excusing individuals making poor decisions, but rather trying to find the explanation for it in a non-judgement fashion.

I'm not accusing you of this, but in my experience, the people who preach "personal responsibility" often do not take the time to understand the issues preventing people from making good decisions, and so aren't even working on the right problem in many cases. And in saying that, please be aware that I do feel there is a place for personal responsibility and it's an important factor in anyone improving their situation. Just not the only factor needed.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#417

Post by rejectedandsad »

whythre wrote: post #406
rejectedandsad wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record there are FAANGs paying their salaries in the Midwest. I could transfer to Detroit or Madison fairly easily.

Those would still be the exception rather than the rule. Not the ‘standard.’

I’d argue it’s pretty close to the baseline now. I’m considered a below average engineer (by compensation), but being L5 at even the least impressive FANG can provide quite a bit of mobility internally.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#418

Post by BeetleB »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #417
whythre wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those would still be the exception rather than the rule. Not the ‘standard.’

I’d argue it’s pretty close to the baseline now. I’m considered a below average engineer (by compensation), but being L5 at even the least impressive FANG can provide quite a bit of mobility internally.

I think what he meant was that getting a FAANG job is the exception.

My original comment was with a standard, lower paying non-FAANG job in the Midwest. You don't need to work at a FAANG to afford a 2000+ sq ft house, have 2 cars, and have a bunch of kids and pay for their college.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#419

Post by c22 »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #394
c22 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I was in Baltimore was probably 15 years ago, but from the terrible street/traffic design to my general feelings of personal safety it was, holistically, the worst city I have ever visited.

what about the street design? >general feelings of personal safety ymmv depending on your level of comfort around lower income black people

It's been a while so my memories may be incomplete, but I recall coming on instances where traffic would use the same lanes of a stretch of road in both directions controlled by a light (so running a red light would result in a head on collision) which made me feel uncomfortable. I remember other Kafkaesque scenarios also, like encountering a 5 way intersection with 4 one-way roads going into it and a single two way potential exit which was under construction and lead to a truly bizarre detour back out a one-way street. Just in general I got the sense that whoever was in charge of street design was asleep at the wheel.

I have no discomfort around black people and have been lower income for most of my life. Most of my safety concerns were around aggressive traffic and sketchy-looking public infrastructure.

Re: Rich people do have trouble understanding what it's like to be poor

#420

Post by detritus »

wpietri wrote: post #414
detritus wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crikey! Thanks. That's still a heck of a lot of work in those hours, with very little downtime. I do a lot of 'proceduralised' jobs, but I'm 'lucky' in that I get to define and hone the procedure and then it tends only to be necessary for a few hours or a day or three, before I move onto something else entirely. I get a wee quick out of making things more efficient, then get to move on before my brain calcifies. The…

Totally. I only did factory work as summer jobs and loved it because it was fun to learn a new domain and try to optimize things. But yeah, I would have been deathly bored eventually. Interestingly, Toyota's factory culture is very different. It's part of company philosophy to seek continuous improvement. They're also big on cross-training and investing in staff. Basically, they respect that hands come with brains, a…

Kaizen culture was a big meme back in the 80s and 90s in the North of England as Japanese car manufacturers set up shop and the differences to then-declining local manufacturing culture became evident.
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