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USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

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Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#441

Post by orthoxerox »

Taniwha wrote: post #367
Tempest1981 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I learned this recently: > If you receive a shock, if can affect the rhythm of your heart and cause problems later. We’re taught to go and get an ECG after receiving a shock. Like jump in the car and go to the doctor or hospital, and have someone else drive you. If you’ve received a shock - go get checked out. -jaidan https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27259589

yup, always work around high voltages with your left hand (the one closes to your heart) in your pocket, to discourage unwanted currents from passing through the heart

As the old joke goes, experienced electricians touch even their wife's breasts with only one hand, just in case.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#442

Post by darrenf »

topspin wrote: post #329
darrenf wrote: post #242

I genuinely don’t understand how I’ve managed to be so lucky. That is, I absolutely do not disbelieve the many tales of woe I hear on HN (like the many in this thread) - but I’ve literally never put any thought into what cable I plug in to what device, and had no trouble that I can recall. It really had lived up to its hype for me so far. My USB-C devices are: a wireless charger, two MacBooks (one intel, one m1), a P…

"What am I doing right?" Maybe not buying the cheapest cables available on the bottom of the Amazon barrel. But I can't know that. Maybe you are and your place will burn down next week. Who knows?

> Maybe not buying the cheapest cables available on the bottom of the Amazon barrel.

That is definitely true. Given how many of my devices came with their own cables - presumably decent quality - I haven't needed to buy any 3rd party cables.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#443

Post by tremon »

notatoad wrote: post #369
mjevans wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be OK if they didn't claim to be complaint, and FAILED SAFELY when used with complaint devices. The issue is that they're both not compliant AND fail in a non-safe bad way.

again though, this is bad but not a flaw in usb-c. a manufacturer created a device that violates the spec. MicroUSB devices can also be bricked by using non-conforming cables and power adapters, but fortunately devices like that are rare because the spec has existed long enough that all the bad devices have been flushed out of the market. manufacturers having made stupid decisions in the past does not mean we shouldn…

It absolutely is a flaw in usb-c that a large manufacturer can create a device that violates the spec and not face serious repercussions.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#444

Post by lmm »

texaswhizzle wrote: post #340
fouric wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> USB-C bashing threads represent the 'HN echo chamber' for me. :) I don't understand how you can possibly call it an "echo chamber" when there are (1) reasoned arguments (2) supported by facts with (3) dissenting opinions. That's almost the opposite of an echo chamber.

It’s because virtually no one outside of Hacker News seems to have these problems. The rest of the world seems to love the singular port.

HN would rather have something that works 100% or clearly fails, so that we can understand what's going on and fix it if it's not right. The rest of the world would prefer something that works in degraded mode (e.g. I plugged in the wrong cable and my monitor started displaying at 30Hz - I was horrified, but how many "normal" users would even have the vocabulary to describe what the problem is?).

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#445

Post by megous »

londons_explore wrote: post #394
megous wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so you detect voltage drop of say 0.4V@5A on the phone end, so slightly out of spec. How do you decide whether it's a slightly underspecced cable (quite common) and 2W being radiated as heat from a 1m long cable (which is not really an issue), or great cable but high contact resistance (where 2W are concentrated into a tiny space that can't cool it)?

You could design a port with multiple contacts onto the same cable pin. One contact does voltage sensing while the other takes the current. Then any amount of dirt in the connector can cause whatever heating it likes, but the device can always calculate how much heat is being dissipated in the connector.

Nice idea. :) Thanks.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#446

Post by lovemenot »

iainmerrick wrote: post #385
II2II wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. That is a fairly significant list of conditions. As an example, I have encountered significant heating in a damaged power cable on the original power supply of a laptop from a reputable vendor. It's easy to argue the owner should immediately replace the damaged power supply, yet many…

I find it a bit disconcerting that we're talking about delivering 240 W over a cable that consumers are unlikely to differentiate from a 15 W cable (i.e. USB-C specification) or even from a 2.5 W cable (e.g a USB cable they would have used fifteen years ago). Yes, exactly! It’s foolhardy. And maybe unnecessary -- haven’t Apple just shown that you can get amazing performance with very low power requirements? And shoul…

What you say about efficiency is right, but it's complicated.

There are many domestic devices on 110 / 220v AC using less than 250W. They are native DC, but source AC because they must.

These devices are not likely to go away soon. In fact they'll proliferate so long as the developing world is still developing.

We can also expect proliferation of domestic battery and solar: both DC sources. A standardised domestic micro-grid of DC sources and consuming devices could be a boon to efficiency and reduction of single-purpose conversion devices such as power bricks and inverters.

As an example, every type of e-bicycle currently has a different proprietary adapter. Just as mobile phones once did. Most e-bikes charge at around 40v.

With 250W USB available we will likely see a switch to USB by e-bile manufacturers, resulting in more common lower cost equipment and better interoperability.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#447

Post by Reason077 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #409
Reason077 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "My general approach, and recommendations to others, is to purchase only Thunderbolt 3 cables ... they'll essentially handle everything you throw at them" Is this really true? My Thunderbolt monitor (LG Ultrafine 4K) came with two cables: Thunderbolt 3 (for connecting to Thunderbolt laptops) and USB-C (for connecting to iPads etc which don't support Thunderbolt). Why would two different cables be needed if the Thun…

Some active thunderbolt cables don't properly support USB. A good one can do it all, as far as I'm aware.

The cables designed for Thunderbolt 3 + 100W charging don't seem to be capable of the fastest USB speeds in my experience. That includes Apple's expensive Thunderbolt cable. They fall back to slower speeds when used as a USB-C cable.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#449

Post by cheschire »

chrisacky wrote: post #209
andrewmunsell wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explaining to my aunt or uncle or grandparents that, no, the cable and charger they bought isn't the right one for their phone/laptop/whatever even though it fits isn't ideal. Sure, it might just charge slowly (cue family tech support call), but it could also just show "not charging" on OS X for example, which is just confusing for most people. It's a real problem, even if tech savvy people are fine with lower charge…

Even I have this problem. I bbought an amp reader and throw out anything reporting below 0.4ma/h. So many devices come bundles with poor cables my house is riddled with cables that I just never want to use for charging. I'm actually TERRIFIED of pluggin anything in to my kids Switch other than Nintendo's official cable, incase I brick i t. Does anyone know if they've patched this? I have some Dell laptop charger USB-…

I bricked my switch on a multi-device charging station. Had to mail it into nintendo and they replaced the whole motherboard. Surprisingly the entire repair process cost less than a replacement switch motherboard on ifixit.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#450

Post by yoz-y »

cletus wrote: post #11

I look forward to USB 4.1a Type C.2 Phase iii.b Gen 3E and the 482646282 different cable capability combinations that all plug in and have no distinction of those capabilities whatsoever. I also look forward to all the necessary and helpful posts telling me how the identical ports on my laptop are in fact diffferent despite their identical appearance. But at least everything uses the same plug, so that’s nice.

Meh, I know it's a bummer and have had problems with this too. However, HDMI, DP, USB-A all have this problem to some extent. (E.g.: my graphics card does not work at-all (as in not even let the computer to boot) if an older HDMI cable is plugged in.
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