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USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

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Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#431

Post by dheera »

cletus wrote: post #11

I look forward to USB 4.1a Type C.2 Phase iii.b Gen 3E and the 482646282 different cable capability combinations that all plug in and have no distinction of those capabilities whatsoever. I also look forward to all the necessary and helpful posts telling me how the identical ports on my laptop are in fact diffferent despite their identical appearance. But at least everything uses the same plug, so that’s nice.

> won’t need to be equipped with an ugly barrel jack

Please bring the barrel jacks back. They were virtually unbreakable. I break about a USB-C cable a week because the connectors are super weak and supported only by 2 dots of solder on a PCB instead of a solid cutout on the housing.

USB-C should have at least standardized the shape of the rubberized housing around the connector, made a matching inset shape on the equipment, and have that take the brunt of all mechanical stress, just like an IEC power cable, which you can drop bricks on and they won't break.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#432

Post by endymi0n »

skybrian wrote: post #174
cletus wrote: post #11

I look forward to USB 4.1a Type C.2 Phase iii.b Gen 3E and the 482646282 different cable capability combinations that all plug in and have no distinction of those capabilities whatsoever. I also look forward to all the necessary and helpful posts telling me how the identical ports on my laptop are in fact diffferent despite their identical appearance. But at least everything uses the same plug, so that’s nice.

It actually is sort of nice, because "works" isn't binary. It's nice to be able to charge a laptop with what you have, even if it doesn't charge quite as fast. You can transfer data over a cable at lower speeds even if it doesn't run at top speed. Using the "right" cable is performance optimization. This isn't like the old days when plugging things in the wrong way might damage your machine.

Spot on. It all is a massive step forward from the times when my mom asked me which cable to plug in where and identical (but fully different) PS/2 connectors for mouse and keyboard were still a thing.

The fact that power doesn‘t just go through a data cable, but actually in all kinds of voltages, useful power levels and in _both directions_ is nothing short of awesome. Fun fact: Didn‘t really find the charching port on my new USB-C power bank until I realized it‘s the same as the output port...

The fact that even degradation is graceful is great. I don‘t always have the 90W brick with me when I‘m on the road with the MacBook, but more than one time I‘ve not regretted at least having a lightweight USB cable in my backpack in order to use a phone charger over night. Granted, I can‘t play games on it in that configuration, but hey, it‘ll still hold up nicely over many hours and I can still work.

Good times!

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#433

Post by mike_d »

jiofih wrote: post #341
Animats wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. Then there's the crap offered for sale on Alibaba which somebody will resell on Amazon and which will show up on a checkout rack at the gas station. USB-C has very tight tolerances and unusual material requirements. Dirt or water can create a conductive path all too easily with USB-C p…

I’ve never heard of USB-C causing a fire. The control ICs should cut the current the moment anything is out of spec. Do you have any examples of that?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/7j3k38/anker_usbc_...

https://wccftech.com/macbook-survives-disables-all-usb-ports...

Researchers even developed an exploit for some USB-C fast chargers that forces it to deliver max power and try to catch the connected device on fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es2SqubYSfo

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#434

Post by hamandcheese »

protomyth wrote: post #349
texaswhizzle wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because virtually no one outside of Hacker News seems to have these problems. The rest of the world seems to love the singular port.

Wait until you have to do tech support for someone who has a USB-C charging cable that doesn't work connecting their hard drive. Singular cable wasn't in the specs.

At this point, I would assume that any user that buys a hard drive (vs using “the cloud”) is advanced enough to figure it out.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#435

Post by hamandcheese »

manmal wrote: post #424
darrenf wrote: post #242

I genuinely don’t understand how I’ve managed to be so lucky. That is, I absolutely do not disbelieve the many tales of woe I hear on HN (like the many in this thread) - but I’ve literally never put any thought into what cable I plug in to what device, and had no trouble that I can recall. It really had lived up to its hype for me so far. My USB-C devices are: a wireless charger, two MacBooks (one intel, one m1), a P…

Using USB-C for charging is not really the highest bar to clear. High res video would be, for example.

I would bet anyone with a use case that isn’t charging is enough of a power user to understand that some cables are different than others.

For everyone else, their life is all wireless and cloud based, and they just want to charge their devices.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#436

Post by izacus »

sokoloff wrote: post #34
jl6 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a possible outcome where cable components become cheap enough that every USB-C cable is a universal cable that does everything?

As long as there’s a penny to be made by shaving component costs, probably not. I have USB micro cables that “work” to charge phones or for data but will give voltage throttling errors if used to power an RPi3 or later. This is presumably from using wires internally of too small gauge. I can’t see things like that stopping.

It's not pennies - 0.5m of TB3 cable is 50$. 2m of TB3 cable is 130$. 2m of USB3.1 cable is 15$. Massive difference, don't you think?

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#437

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

jiofih wrote: post #341
Animats wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. Then there's the crap offered for sale on Alibaba which somebody will resell on Amazon and which will show up on a checkout rack at the gas station. USB-C has very tight tolerances and unusual material requirements. Dirt or water can create a conductive path all too easily with USB-C p…

I’ve never heard of USB-C causing a fire. The control ICs should cut the current the moment anything is out of spec. Do you have any examples of that?

The comment two above yours is not enough?

Red hot metal and smoking plastic.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#438

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

vokep wrote: post #302
fouric wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device This is the problem! This is what everybody talking about the specs doesn't get - it's difficult to (1) tell which spec a device claims to support and (2) verify that it actually supports it (see: a lot of cheap devices on Amazon) and also (3) in real life many devices do not support the specs (i.e. this isn't a theoretical problem).

Unless I'm mistaken, there is a license to call a port a USB port, though goods are commonly sold without that. In theory the solution is simple: only buy products that have the actual USB logo and ensure certification, and the USB-IF should retain the right to significantly fine any manufacturer advertising being to spec and using the logo who is in fact not. In practice, people aren't going to stop buying nintendo…

One solution could be to require different connectors for different protocols and power delivery.

I'm beginning to suspect The Great Filter is Jony Ive's minimalist design influence: any sufficiently advanced culture will annihilate itself before it discovers interstellar travel when someone connects two devices together that aren't compatible with the equivalent of a One True Connector™ USB cable.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#439

Post by baybal2 »

mike_d wrote: post #433
jiofih wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never heard of USB-C causing a fire. The control ICs should cut the current the moment anything is out of spec. Do you have any examples of that?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/7j3k38/anker_usbc_... https://wccftech.com/macbook-survives-disables-all-usb-ports... Researchers even developed an exploit for some USB-C fast chargers that forces it to deliver max power and try to catch the connected device on fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es2SqubYSfo

The problem is the gazillion of proprietary fast charging standards.

Some of them were designed for chargers with attached cable, and not disconnectable one.

Many charger ICs emulate the fast charging signalling to trick phones into charging faster, but they of course have no way to check if wiring is ok on micro-usb.

So you can end up with 5A-10A going over flimsy wires/contact pads. Or if they use type-c, they can end up using fake 5A cables. Or in case of VOOC, they don't check if the cable is an actual VOOC cable, which goes over 5A.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#440

Post by rk06 »

I used to hate USB c's varying level of support.

Then I got a laptop (from work) which takes USB-C power port, not much different than any other custom power port.

Then, I got a docking station (from work). And the USB-C cable turned out to be capable of both powering the laptop and transmitting data via the same wire to docking station.

It was awesome. Otherwise, I would have needed two cables for power and data.

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