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Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin.

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11–20 of 43 posts

Re: Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin.

#11
post #9

Not to forget: Instant(!!!) green card for anyone earning more than 65000 Euros/year. The only issue I still have is the "awful German language" ;-) http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/awfgrmlg.html (Mark Twain's 1880 book A Tramp Abroad.)

Do you have a link to the green card program? Is it EU wide or germany specific?

Re: Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin.

#12
It seems to gloss over this ..

If I form a startup in the USA and it goes belly up once assets are sold off to pay creditors I am free..however in the EU if startup goes belly up you are still on the hook as far as the difference between what is owed creditors and what the assets sold for..or am I wrong on this point?

Re: Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin.

#13

The nice thing for europeans is that if you're part of the eurozone, you can live and work wherever you like. A business doesn't have to be domiciled in the same location as its headquarters or employees. In the US, many businesses are domiciled in Deleware with no employees in that state. But I think the question for Hacker News, or at least for the Hackers who are interested in doing startups outside the USA is-- w…

Is saving a few % of taxes that important for an IT company?

Re: Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin.

#14
post #12

It seems to gloss over this .. If I form a startup in the USA and it goes belly up once assets are sold off to pay creditors I am free..however in the EU if startup goes belly up you are still on the hook as far as the difference between what is owed creditors and what the assets sold for..or am I wrong on this point?

You are wrong. A corporation in Germany/EU offers the same protection as a US corporation.

Re: Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin.

#15
post #5
post #2

glaring omissions from the article what are the personal and corp tax rates? (high!) and how easy is it to hire and fire employees (hard I hear). No one doubts the nightlife and leafy suburbs of germany are nice

Personal tax rates are higher, at the same time you get better (and cheaper) healthcare. Corporate tax rates are indeed higher in Germany. At the same time, there are lots of funding opportunities for startups from communal, national and EU business development programs, that can be seen as sort of a tax break. Hiring is probably harder, since programmers are generally less interested in startups and prefer safe corp…

The healthcare is not included in the cost of personal taxes.

Private healthcare here is much better, and about the same cost. It's a red herring.

Re: Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin.

#16
post #4

I thought it was Lond.. no Helsi.. I mean Amst... Oh, never mind. There's only one thing remotely comparable to Silicon Valley in Europe and that's Ireland. It's where the laws are right for tech. companies and Facebook, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Intel, IBM, and possibly even Twitter got together and are attracting a ton of engineers, which are creating a ton of start-ups, networking events, and even quite a bit of…

AFAIK, Google does not do "smart" stuff in Ireland, they have a datacenter there but the software tricks are done in Zürich. According to their job offers anyway. I also visited an HP factory in Ireland, it makes printer cartridges but does not innovate much. Also worked for them in a phone call center. Again, not really startupy. It seems clear to me that thay all came in Ireland to evade taxes.

Moreover, the atmosphere is not exactly right for startups. The weather sucks. The food is dismal. And when I was there it was expensive as hell, and the bubble hasn't finished exploding yet.

Re: Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin.

#17
post #12

It seems to gloss over this .. If I form a startup in the USA and it goes belly up once assets are sold off to pay creditors I am free..however in the EU if startup goes belly up you are still on the hook as far as the difference between what is owed creditors and what the assets sold for..or am I wrong on this point?

It depends on the type of business entity that you choose (Rechtsform). If you incorporate as an Einzelunternehmen (single person company) or GbR (multiple person company, Gesellschaft bürgerlichen Rechts), you're fully liable. If on the other hand you open up a GmbH (limited liability company, Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung) or AG (joint-stock company, Aktiengesellschaft), you're not on the hook if the company becomes insolvent.

The catch is that if you incorporate as an Einzelunternehmen or GbR, it's much easier to get credit from banks or other stuff because you're fully liable.

EU law allows you to incorporate in a different EU country with a type of business entity common there, but it's usually more convenient to incorporate in the country where you're residing.

Re: Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin.

#18
post #13

The nice thing for europeans is that if you're part of the eurozone, you can live and work wherever you like. A business doesn't have to be domiciled in the same location as its headquarters or employees. In the US, many businesses are domiciled in Deleware with no employees in that state. But I think the question for Hacker News, or at least for the Hackers who are interested in doing startups outside the USA is-- w…

Is saving a few % of taxes that important for an IT company?

Choosing the best state based on tax considerations oftentimes reduces tax bill by at least 5% of your net profits. Now, lets say you are making 2M per year. 5% = 100K, which is more than enough to hire another programmer!

Re: Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin.

#19
post #13

The nice thing for europeans is that if you're part of the eurozone, you can live and work wherever you like. A business doesn't have to be domiciled in the same location as its headquarters or employees. In the US, many businesses are domiciled in Deleware with no employees in that state. But I think the question for Hacker News, or at least for the Hackers who are interested in doing startups outside the USA is-- w…

Is saving a few % of taxes that important for an IT company?

It's apparently important for big corporations, but since a complex tax minimization scheme comes with huge setup and running costs, it's not really important for startups that are bootstrapping or seeking funding. I'd even say that a tax-optimized exotic setup would rather limit your funding opportunities.

Re: Berlins new techno beat. why international tech startups should move to berlin.

#20
post #15
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal tax rates are higher, at the same time you get better (and cheaper) healthcare. Corporate tax rates are indeed higher in Germany. At the same time, there are lots of funding opportunities for startups from communal, national and EU business development programs, that can be seen as sort of a tax break. Hiring is probably harder, since programmers are generally less interested in startups and prefer safe corp…

The healthcare is not included in the cost of personal taxes. Private healthcare here is much better, and about the same cost. It's a red herring.

Of course it's a separate payment, I was thinking in terms of total cost per employee.
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