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Microsoft president: Orwell’s 1984 could happen in 2024

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft president: Orwell’s 1984 could happen in 2024

#51

Post by sidlls »

rdiddly wrote: post #26

I don't want to cast the central concern as trivial, because it's real, BUT, c'mon, "beating China in AI is imperative?" Grow up. To "beat" anybody (and for that matter to have any sort of claim to deserving to "win" anything), you would want to "beat China at Not-Being-A-Repressive-Dystopia" wouldn't you? Perhaps including "beating China at Not-Using-AI-To-Be-A-Repressive-Dystopia?"

To play a bit of devil’s advocate, “beating China at Not-Being-A-Repressive-Dystopia” requires ensuring China’s influence in the world is minimized or contained. It’s hard to beat them if they take over, in other words.

(Note that this also requires defeating the same kinds of forces domestically.)

Re: Microsoft president: Orwell’s 1984 could happen in 2024

#52

Post by freeone3000 »

astrange wrote: post #31

What does a "president of Microsoft" do? Is that better than an "executive vice president"? It seems like it means "chief legal officer". https://news.microsoft.com/exec/brad-smith/

He's concurrently the chief legal officer, but his role as president is to negotiate with governments.

Re: Microsoft president: Orwell’s 1984 could happen in 2024

#53

Post by mjevans »

(It's already happening in current times;) China recently made a movie star apologize in public, to say effectively, 'Taiwan is not a country'.

I don't care what the name is, but that island just a little bit off the coast of the big country known as China, should be recognized by the UN and member nations as a sovereign nation.

Re: Microsoft president: Orwell’s 1984 could happen in 2024

#54

Post by ctoth »

noofen wrote: post #23
userbinator wrote: post #8

Is AI really the threat, or is it really the increasingly authoritarian nature of Big Tech itself?

I recommend reading Curtis Yarvin's recent writing on this exact topic [1]. [1]: https://graymirror.substack.com/p/there-is-no-ai-risk

I find his arguments very difficult to square with this article from 2015[1]. The prologue of [2] also paints a pretty compelling picture of how this might happen.

Also

> We don’t live in the world of Neuromancer and we never will. 99.9% of everything is mathematically invulnerable to hacking.

Seriously made me chuckle.

[1]: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/07/no-physical-substrate-...

[2]: https://www.amazon.com/Life-3-0-Being-Artificial-Intelligenc...

Re: Microsoft president: Orwell’s 1984 could happen in 2024

#55

Post by artichokeheart »

dleslie wrote: post #41

A key point of 1984 is that behind the screen is a fellow citizen; and that the entire structure of oppression is operated by otherwise-regular citizens. It's sad that "big brother" has lost the connotation of a citizen-operated panopticon, because I think that concern is far more immediately pressing.

I think more pressure needs to be put on the developers in these big tech enterprises. I think the problem is that it's cash and cachet, not fear and torture, that blind them to real human impacts of what they are doing in their day job.

Re: Microsoft president: Orwell’s 1984 could happen in 2024

#56

Post by [deleted] »

stadium wrote: post #46
rdiddly wrote: post #26

I don't want to cast the central concern as trivial, because it's real, BUT, c'mon, "beating China in AI is imperative?" Grow up. To "beat" anybody (and for that matter to have any sort of claim to deserving to "win" anything), you would want to "beat China at Not-Being-A-Repressive-Dystopia" wouldn't you? Perhaps including "beating China at Not-Using-AI-To-Be-A-Repressive-Dystopia?"

Survailance and drone swarm assassins are two areas to be concerned about.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft president: Orwell’s 1984 could happen in 2024

#57

Post by latch »

mjevans wrote: post #53

(It's already happening in current times;) China recently made a movie star apologize in public, to say effectively, 'Taiwan is not a country'. I don't care what the name is, but that island just a little bit off the coast of the big country known as China, should be recognized by the UN and member nations as a sovereign nation.

It's been a while since I read the book, but this seems like a stretch. One country imposing implicit/vague economic penalty on a citizen of another country, doesn't seem right relevant to me.

When 1984 and "Orwellian" are used as a catch-all for any type of oppression or even any type of propaganda, I think it does a great disservice.

Re: Microsoft president: Orwell’s 1984 could happen in 2024

#58

Post by Barrin92 »

My personal version of 1984 is someone smashing random quotes from 1984 into my face, forever. Has nobody seriously read another book in the last few decades?

And Microsoft's president even gives us a stereotypically shoddy reading of the book

>"You know the fundamental story…was about a government who could see everything that everyone did and hear everything that everyone said all the time."

The actually interesting takeaway isn't "government does bad stuff with tech", it's that an atmosphere of reality inversion creates fertile ground for people to accept fiction over truth, even when the lie is obvious. State surveillance doesn't require AI, the Stasi already had the capacity for that 40 years ago.

Re: Microsoft president: Orwell’s 1984 could happen in 2024

#59

Post by paxys »

rdiddly wrote: post #26

I don't want to cast the central concern as trivial, because it's real, BUT, c'mon, "beating China in AI is imperative?" Grow up. To "beat" anybody (and for that matter to have any sort of claim to deserving to "win" anything), you would want to "beat China at Not-Being-A-Repressive-Dystopia" wouldn't you? Perhaps including "beating China at Not-Using-AI-To-Be-A-Repressive-Dystopia?"

That is exactly what it is though. If this was 1940 and China was building a nuclear bomb, you wouldn't fight them by disarming yourself and promoting peace. You would build a bigger bomb first.

If USA and others tightly regulate tech, and AI advancements in China continue unchecked, then in a few decades there will be no resisting them from doing literally whatever.

Re: Microsoft president: Orwell’s 1984 could happen in 2024

#60

Post by aeternum »

lsy wrote: post #32

It seems that some tech executives, having more money than any person could spend, often seek what they see as the next level of accomplishment, which is proximity to power and decisions over life and death. That shows up as this sort of militaristic nationalism along lines that conveniently happen to align with their claimed expertise. Of course neither of the executives interviewed in this article really knows that…

>so the predictions in the article are not based on any kind of evidence

Like the assertions in your comment?

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