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USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

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Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#341

Post by jiofih »

Animats wrote: post #326
zlsa wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. The specifications are very carefully designed to prevent any combination of cables and devices from causing damage.

It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. Then there's the crap offered for sale on Alibaba which somebody will resell on Amazon and which will show up on a checkout rack at the gas station. USB-C has very tight tolerances and unusual material requirements. Dirt or water can create a conductive path all too easily with USB-C p…

I’ve never heard of USB-C causing a fire. The control ICs should cut the current the moment anything is out of spec. Do you have any examples of that?

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#342

Post by steve_adams_86 »

darrenf wrote: post #242

I genuinely don’t understand how I’ve managed to be so lucky. That is, I absolutely do not disbelieve the many tales of woe I hear on HN (like the many in this thread) - but I’ve literally never put any thought into what cable I plug in to what device, and had no trouble that I can recall. It really had lived up to its hype for me so far. My USB-C devices are: a wireless charger, two MacBooks (one intel, one m1), a P…

I discovered my camera doesn’t charge unless it’s USB type A to USB type C. I think that’s the only weird thing I’ve encountered in my USB experiences.

It’s the paralenz dive camera. There might even be good reasons for it, but I couldn’t guess.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#343

Post by mnouquet »

lmilcin wrote: post #237
mnouquet wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet people downvoting you don't understand physics... :-/

Shh... it is not in good tone to directly demask shortcomings of general HN audience. Everybody here is an expert in every topic discussed and if you got downvotes it means you have deserved it. I personally own an electronics lab but whaddaiknow. On more serious note, the USB-C just barely has dimensions to deal with 5A 50V. You need thick enough cables and traces, you need clearences and you need margins. If you lo…

Does USB-IF include wire gauge / conductivity requirements in the standard ?

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#344

Post by snailmailman »

neither_color wrote: post #273
Rebelgecko wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Oculus Quest works fine with a 3meter AmazonBasics USB cable that I got for like $15. I think the only advantage of the official link cable is that it gets you 5m without needing to add an extender to a 3m cable

It works but it if you run a high bandwidth game like Flight Simulator you might hit some performance limits, you can check your cable speed in the quest desktop app.

I’m not the same user but I haven’t had any problems with my cheap usb cable. Only that the cheaper cable I got is shorter.

I haven’t done the speed test in a while but last I checked I think it was 3Gbps? Not quite the theoretical max for the port/cable but easily enough for the few hundred megabit video feed.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#345

Post by smoldesu »

ksec wrote: post #289
Dylan16807 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From "doesn't even start to compete" and "GPUs have always been the biggest power draw" I don't think they were comparing to integrated.

But then again Apple GPU were limited to 10W Max and it was a design decision not technology limitation. There is nothing that stops Apple putting in 16 or 32 Core GPU which would bring its GPU performance on par if not exceed market competitors.

> But then again Apple GPU were limited to 10W Max and it was a design decision not technology limitation.

No, it was a technology limitation. The reason I know is because of the M1 Macbook Pro, a device explicitly designed to reap the maximum performance benefits of the M1. It was designed with active cooling and still didn't really manage to score much better than the M1 Macbook Air.

Either way, Apple can't just magically increase the wattage of their chip and make it run faster. They had every opportunity to do that in the M1 Mac Mini and the new iMac, but they didn't. It's a very obvious limitation of the SOC's capabilities, and I honestly can't find any evidence to suggest otherwise.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#346

Post by II2II »

zlsa wrote: post #279
alerighi wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not using the proper cable could lead also to fires, for example. We are talking about a significant amount of current. If you don't use a cable rated for that current, the cable or the connector will overheat, and possibly start a fire. And it's not a remote possibility. It happened to me with a fast charging phone power supply and the phone, and the cable was the one provided by the manufacturer! The type-C connect…

It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. The specifications are very carefully designed to prevent any combination of cables and devices from causing damage.

> It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires.

That is a fairly significant list of conditions. As an example, I have encountered significant heating in a damaged power cable on the original power supply of a laptop from a reputable vendor. It's easy to argue the owner should immediately replace the damaged power supply, yet many people will continue to use problematic hardware until it no longer functions. It is also the case that many companies will manufacture components down to a price (or, in the case of this vendor, for aesthetics) rather than make something that is robust.

I find it a bit disconcerting that we're talking about delivering 240 W over a cable that consumers are unlikely to differentiate from a 15 W cable (i.e. USB-C specification) or even from a 2.5 W cable (e.g a USB cable they would have used fifteen years ago).

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#347

Post by andrewmunsell »

texaswhizzle wrote: post #338
andrewmunsell wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explaining to my aunt or uncle or grandparents that, no, the cable and charger they bought isn't the right one for their phone/laptop/whatever even though it fits isn't ideal. Sure, it might just charge slowly (cue family tech support call), but it could also just show "not charging" on OS X for example, which is just confusing for most people. It's a real problem, even if tech savvy people are fine with lower charge…

How is this any different than buying the wrong cable in the past? You used to have to choose USB2, USB3, USB3.x, micro USB, mini USB, DisplayPort, Mini DisplayPort, HDMI, mini HDMI, VGA, DVI, thunderbolt, and more. I think people are either too young to remember this disaster, or have just outright forgotten.

The issue is more the ubiquity-- when everything from my phone, to Nintendo Switch, to headphones, to flashlight, to laptop use the same cord for power and data, it's a bigger problem than the low spec HDMI cable you plug in once.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#349

Post by protomyth »

texaswhizzle wrote: post #340
fouric wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> USB-C bashing threads represent the 'HN echo chamber' for me. :) I don't understand how you can possibly call it an "echo chamber" when there are (1) reasoned arguments (2) supported by facts with (3) dissenting opinions. That's almost the opposite of an echo chamber.

It’s because virtually no one outside of Hacker News seems to have these problems. The rest of the world seems to love the singular port.

Wait until you have to do tech support for someone who has a USB-C charging cable that doesn't work connecting their hard drive. Singular cable wasn't in the specs.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#350

Post by mjevans »

chimeracoder wrote: post #299
koube wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nintendo Switch can be bricked if you use the wrong cable, although my understanding is that it's not built to the USB-C spec: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/87vmud/the_... Either way, this is an incredibly common device that can be damaged by incompatible hardware where it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device.

> Either way, this is an incredibly common device that can be damaged by incompatible hardware where it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device. This is 100% Nintendo's fault for using the USB-C connector type but not actually bothering to adhere to the USB-C specification.

It would be OK if they didn't claim to be complaint, and FAILED SAFELY when used with complaint devices.

The issue is that they're both not compliant AND fail in a non-safe bad way.

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