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USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

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Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#311

Post by dzhiurgis »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #305
zlsa wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. The specifications are very carefully designed to prevent any combination of cables and devices from causing damage.

Yeah the problem is that there's nothing to stop product designers from specifying the connectors even though the device doesn't logically support the implied standards. Some people here talked about the Switch; but it's a general problem. For example: I have an external USB drive that has a Type A USB 3 host socket on the back of it (???). It came with a cable with a Type A USB 3 plug on one end and a USB C plug on…

But what does universal shape of connector has to do with?

Power negotiation applies to USB-A just as it does with USB-C... (I think)

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#312

Post by jayd16 »

fouric wrote: post #294
sz4kerto wrote: post #257

USB-C bashing threads represent the 'HN echo chamber' for me. :) I understand the problems of different cables, I've run into them already. One cable can do Thunderbolt, the other cannot. One cable transmits 4K video signal, the others doesn't transmit anything. And so on. However, it is sooooo much better than anything before because at least _most of the time_ stuff works. Chargers charge. Sometimes slower, sometim…

> USB-C bashing threads represent the 'HN echo chamber' for me. :) I don't understand how you can possibly call it an "echo chamber" when there are (1) reasoned arguments (2) supported by facts with (3) dissenting opinions. That's almost the opposite of an echo chamber.

Most users don't notice or care but if you just read HN you'd think USB was controversial.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#313

Post by amluto »

StrictDabbler wrote: post #256
dangerlibrary wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Voltage can't go up arbitrarily, but voltage can safely be increased to ~48V or so in most applications. After 48V, humans start to get shocked / hurt, so that's probably the reasonable limit. Car batteries in ICE cars are nominally 12v. Grab both terminals and tell me it doesn't hurt.

Ok, done. Many many many times. 12v can't exceed the resistance of human skin so it doesn't matter how much current capacity it has. You can hold onto those terminals all day. It's settled science. If you doubt it, tests of this are all over YouTube. It's just true. Now your tongue, perhaps...

If t you short a car battery, you might not get electrocuted, but the results are unlikely to be pretty.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#314

Post by jfkvktnrnr »

Nextgrid wrote: post #252
standardUser wrote: post #225

I'm having a hard time understand the negative comments here. Can some explain precisely what the commenters here know that the USB-IF doesn't? Because according to the comments here this won't work, will cause frequent fires and is an all around insane and unworkable idea.

> what the commenters here know that the USB-IF doesn't The fact that in the real world, in 2021, it's still impossible to tell what standard a particular cable or device supports. I have several cables in my possession, and only through trial and error I can tell you which cable supports what, and I'm lucky enough that these cables are high-quality and fail "safely" but technically they don't have to. Yes I know tha…

You're overthinking it. The average consumer will just read the big text on the package, ask a shop assistant or a friend.

You'll have different sections in shops, "fast charging cable", "fast transfer cable", or "fast charging AND fast transfer cable" (with a price to match)

Or stuff like "supports connecting a TV", etc.

People will understand that there are different cables for different jobs, because they understand that a universal cable will be way more expensive.

> In the old days, you could buy a USB-A to micro USB cable and have it work and charge your phone.

Some USB-A to micro cables charge way faster than others (thicker wire). So this supposedly new USB-C problem is actually not new at all.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#316

Post by jayd16 »

ksec wrote: post #288
sz4kerto wrote: post #257

USB-C bashing threads represent the 'HN echo chamber' for me. :) I understand the problems of different cables, I've run into them already. One cable can do Thunderbolt, the other cannot. One cable transmits 4K video signal, the others doesn't transmit anything. And so on. However, it is sooooo much better than anything before because at least _most of the time_ stuff works. Chargers charge. Sometimes slower, sometim…

>USB-C bashing threads represent the 'HN echo chamber' for me. :) It is still a rather new phenomenon. Most of HN used to be USB-C supporters. Especially those on Apple camp. For years mentioning every single problem listed in this thread would get downvoted into oblivion. Since most of them didn't bother jumping in to defence their beloved USB-C, I guess they changed their mind.

> didn't bother jumping in to defence [sic]

Why bother? USB will remain dominant and there's nothing to be gained from the millionth iteration of the argument.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#317

Post by jayd16 »

darrenf wrote: post #242

I genuinely don’t understand how I’ve managed to be so lucky. That is, I absolutely do not disbelieve the many tales of woe I hear on HN (like the many in this thread) - but I’ve literally never put any thought into what cable I plug in to what device, and had no trouble that I can recall. It really had lived up to its hype for me so far. My USB-C devices are: a wireless charger, two MacBooks (one intel, one m1), a P…

Its really not as big an issue as the comments make it seem. Of the devices listed, I can only think of Oculus Link to a Quest 2 using USB3 speeds in a noticeable way.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#319

Post by jayd16 »

anfilt wrote: post #161
izacus wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly am I going to charge my phone, headphones, gamepad, tablet and bunch of other devices from a barrel connector? USB-C has pretty much eliminated forlorn MacBook users shambling around our office and looking for another soul to give them a compatible proprietary charger. Let's keep it this way.

None of those devices you listed need 240 watts... That's quite a bit power to just trust some protocol to negotiate correctly.

What if the rest of the devices charge through the macbook at once?

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#320

Post by drewzero1 »

skybrian wrote: post #174
cletus wrote: post #11

I look forward to USB 4.1a Type C.2 Phase iii.b Gen 3E and the 482646282 different cable capability combinations that all plug in and have no distinction of those capabilities whatsoever. I also look forward to all the necessary and helpful posts telling me how the identical ports on my laptop are in fact diffferent despite their identical appearance. But at least everything uses the same plug, so that’s nice.

It actually is sort of nice, because "works" isn't binary. It's nice to be able to charge a laptop with what you have, even if it doesn't charge quite as fast. You can transfer data over a cable at lower speeds even if it doesn't run at top speed. Using the "right" cable is performance optimization. This isn't like the old days when plugging things in the wrong way might damage your machine.

"Works" may be a spectrum, but "works optimally" is binary.

There is so much variation in the USB spec that a data transfer or a battery charge could take a few minutes or a few hours depending on which cable and which port/adapter you use, with no foolproof way to make sure you're putting together the right equipment, because regardless, it still "works", just not very well.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that it "works". I just wish it was clearer what I need to make it work optimally, aside from just using the one brick and cable that came with my device (assuming I was so lucky).

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