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The only Buddhist region in Europe

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Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#161
post #33

What's the big deal:"a piece of Asia on the European continent", Europe and Asia are two parts of one continent, Eurasia

I can't help but think that the whole distinction between Europe and Asia is based on European pride and racism. It definitely makes sense to divide them from a cultural perspective, but a geological one? Come on.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#163
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a child I had a subconscious assumption that Christianity wasn't rational, and maintained that view into my mid-twenties. Thankfully, I had the drive to do research on it, and an open enough mind to accept it, because I was ready to reject Christianity completely for a short period. I know this view isn't popular, but today, I see Christianity as the most rational philosophy/religion out there. I think it's been w…

Christians have always been 1/3 scholar, 1/3 philosopher, and 1/3 priest. The premise of Christianity is "revelation". That a higher power revealed knowledge to humans that is not knowable by any other means. That there is revealed knowledge has meant that Christians spend much of their time thinking about and working out the implications of their revealed knowledge and trying to fit it into the rest of the world. Ho…

More people should know about the apparitions that have taken place in Catholicism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_apparition

These apparitions provide a lot of revealed knowledge which is not in the Bible necessarily.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#164

Also of interest is the Mari Native Religion which is practiced in the Mari El Republic of Russia[0]. I believe this is the only example of an indigenous religion surviving with continued practice into the modern day. RT made a documentary about it[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mari_Native_Religion [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ_2kpTJvj0

what about judaism or christianism, aren't they "indigenous" ? what do you mean exactly by indigenous?

[deleted]

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#165

Tangentially related, there is a Greek influence on Buddhism in East Asia because Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom. The Buddha as depicted in East Asia is wearing Greek robes and there are elements of Greek philosophy in Buddhism as practiced in East Asia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism

Surprised this is the top thread and unchallenged.

Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom

{{citation-needed}}. Buddhism arrived in the geographic region currently encompassed by the modern Chinese state via multiple routes over more than a thousand years including innumerable exchanges through the overall Tarim Basin (Xinjiang) or "silk road" area via modern Tajikistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan but also via Tibet and by sea through Southeast Asia (Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, and probably some sporadic oceanic contact with South Asia and Buddhist kingdoms in Indonesia). Tajikistan in particular is only slightly archaeologically investigated to date owing to its remote location, poor infrastructure, geopolitical challenges and IIRC the use of mines during 20th century military conflicts. In short, like any other set of ideas it probably arrived in waves of migration, monkly pilgrimages, exchanges, and instances of official diplomacy. There are records of Buddhism being preached to China by the geographically proximal Yuezhi people as early as 2BCE. Classical Chinese history teaches that Buddhism "came to China" in 67CE. Hellenistic artistic styles are, to my knowledge, never mentioned.

Buddha as depicted in East Asia is wearing Greek robes

The robes are not Greek, they are Buddhist. Buddhism was established in the sixth century BCE. We can read that in Buddhist tradition monks are only allowed a robe and a begging bowl, and that the historical Buddha also set forth a tradition that discouraged iconography as improper worship of likeness (idolatry). This may be because Buddha composed his philosophy in reaction to the prevailing religious environment, where he had previously partaken in such habits which were and remain deeply culturally entrenched.

In short, Greco-Buddhist art is influential because it is, in a sense, the first major period with any voluminous production of "Buddhist art" (a notion decidedly not Buddhist), and in any event, the Hellenistic style robes primarily only affects Mahayana art, and the modern geographical scope of China also encompasses an endemic Vajrayana philosophy, Theravada, and Tibetan. Even within Mahayana artistic tradition in China, I don't see how a cursory inspection of - for example - robes depicted at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Buddhist_sculpture or https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Buddhist_sculptu... could conclude they're all Greek-influenced. Such a claim is tenuous at best.

there are elements of Greek philosophy in Buddhism as practiced in East Asia.

I have never heard anyone make this claim. If we flip the claim, as Buddhist jataka tales are known to Christianity, the reverse could also be said: "elements of Indian philosophy in Christianity as practiced in Europe". Such a statement, outside of tangential academic arguments, is broadly untrue.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#166

It seems weird Buddhism is such a minor religion in Europe while it is so rational, based on individual experience (rather than belief) gained through reproducible applied self-regulation techniques, backed by neuroscience and explained with consistent philosophical logic.

Western/secular Buddhism popularized in the west is generally not the same as Buddhism practiced in Buddhist countries. The actual Buddhist religion teachings can include, depending on the branch: - Hell and heaven realms where you can get reincarnated into if you've lived an especially bad or good life - Various gods and demons - A timeline spanning trillions of years and hundreds of Buddhas - "Celestial Buddhas" th…

> Hell and heaven realms where you can get reincarnated into if you've lived an especially bad or good life

The hells (there are many cold hot and cold hells) and heavens and other realms of the dharmaic cosmology are important metaphors making a lot of philosophical/psychological sense. You can easily tell where are you supposed to reincarnate if you are sufficiently self-aware. Once you practice enough you can become more or less free from the tendencies of your mind which are meant to put you there or there and this will improve your overall health, mood and productivity. You can even realize that you already are living in particular realm actually despite living in the same world everybody else is from the physical point of view.

> Enlightenment is now impossible in this world because it's too corrupt. If you chant enough, this or that Buddha will reincarnate you into their personal realm where you can become enlightened.

Also makes sense: it indeed is very hard (if at all possible) to become completely free from how your neural system is preconditioned to react to what happens around. And if you feel bad about this you better chant than panic or do unpleasant things other religions followers might believe they should to do.

Also, no matter how much mythology does Buddhism contain, that comes packed with very practical and objective goodies, readily available to everybody interested. Buddhists would teach you to maintain mental health and wouldn't label you a heretic if you ignore parts of the teachings or interpret them your own way (unless you start propagating your unorthodox views too aggressively). Isn't this nice?

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#167

Tangentially related, there is a Greek influence on Buddhism in East Asia because Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom. The Buddha as depicted in East Asia is wearing Greek robes and there are elements of Greek philosophy in Buddhism as practiced in East Asia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism

Surprised this is the top thread and unchallenged. Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom {{citation-needed}}. Buddhism arrived in the geographic region currently encompassed by the modern Chinese state via multiple routes over more than a thousand years including innumerable exchanges through the overall Tarim Basin (Xinjiang) or "silk road" area via modern Tajikistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan but…

My apologies for the mistakes in my statement. You seen to know much, much about this topic than me; thank you for adding the nuances this complex topic. My comment was based on my recollection of what I saw at the San Francisco Museum of Asian Arts and some of the descriptions I read there about the various pieces. In all likelihood, my recollection was either incorrect and/or incomplete. I cited the Wikipedia article because it seems to reflect similar ideas as my recollection and also in case anyone else found the topic as fascinating as I did.

I'm past the window for editing my original comment but if the mods don't mind, it would be great to qualify my original comment with the response.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I use the term "Europe" I mean the usual definition of the continent of Europe which is pretty much "everything west of the Urals". As far as I'm concerned, Moscow is in Europe.

You’re not from Europe I presume?

Scotland, so yes I am.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#169

It seems weird Buddhism is such a minor religion in Europe while it is so rational, based on individual experience (rather than belief) gained through reproducible applied self-regulation techniques, backed by neuroscience and explained with consistent philosophical logic.

Perhaps people experience cognitive dissonance when reconciling the things that you mentioned with beliefs about reincarnation ? I am relying on a rather common and uninformed understanding of Buddhism here, so I may be way off base. EDIT: I had to look it up, but I guess European culture has contained some sort of belief in reincarnation (Plato's Republic, Book X / Myth of Er). I don't suppose this belief has much t…

> Perhaps people experience cognitive dissonance when reconciling the things that you mentioned with beliefs about reincarnation?

Reincarnation was the only thing to come into my mind when I heard "buddhism" when I was a schoolboy. I had zero idea of what else is Buddhism about back then. Later, as I learnt more I found out (or came to an opinion) "reincarnation" itself is a fairly unimportant concept. Perhaps it is only there to attract/repel public and to be another target for becoming indifferent to as you progress.

It may also be beneficial to imagine you being reincarnated in a particular realm of existence and contemplating what you would experience. Imagine you are going to heaven where you are going to live millennia never forgetting... that you are going to hell after that, inevitably, like for real, and try to come in peace with that. That would be an exercise.

Re: The only Buddhist region in Europe

#170

Also of interest is the Mari Native Religion which is practiced in the Mari El Republic of Russia[0]. I believe this is the only example of an indigenous religion surviving with continued practice into the modern day. RT made a documentary about it[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mari_Native_Religion [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ_2kpTJvj0

Uh.. how about Judaism in Israel?
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