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Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

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Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#271

Post by alpaca128 »

Omni5cience wrote: post #208
alpaca128 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The differences that actually matter are self explanatory: map is for all modes, imap for insert mode, nmap for normal mode and vmap for visual mode (& tmap for terminal mode in NeoVim). The rest can be safely ignored as far as I can tell. Little confession: I have no idea what e.g. the difference between "nmap" and "nnoremap" is. But after years of randomly mixing them in hundreds of bindings without a noticeable di…

You're right, for most simple use cases it doesn't matter. But I once spent an hour on a weird bug that turned out to just be some plugin applying a map that I didn't know about and that I didn't know about map expansion. So I might be biased, but I think a loose understanding is helpful. The default behavior is to recursively expand and apply your mappings and "noremap" disables this recursion. For example if you do…

Thanks for this example, now I get it. It never really clicked for me when I read explanations on SO etc.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#272

Post by salmo »

I started using neovim when it had async and vim would hang. I think vim maybe caught up here, but I found I lost nothing in the move and the snappiness hooked me. I just haven't switched back.

The items here are really exciting.

VSCode is fine. I use IntelliJ sometimes for larger shared projects. Both I setup with their vim plugins for keybindings because I think in 'vi', but it's not 1:1. I usually can't do things like '!!sh' I have habits for.

I have a smattering of plugins that cover most of my language needs, but it would nice to have that more on-par with an IDE or whatever weird space VSCode sits in between an IDE and a text-editor.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#273

Post by jrop »

addicted wrote: post #83
oblio wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, Vimscript sucks. Using a more mainstream language would be great for a modern advanced editor. Vim has a ton of Vimscript plugins but I wonder how long it will take the Neovim community to replicate most of their functionality in Lua. I'd guess that not that long.

I’m pretty sure that the primary reason we don’t have more VIM plugins, despite many more emacs users, is vimscript being terrible. If vim had a more usable scripting language it would have easily surpassed emacs in plugins and more importantly, since plugins would have been more popular, vim would have been developed in a way to make it more extensible and nvim wouldn’t even be needed.

I think you are correct. I think this is why certain Vim "demigods" have arisen (aka tpope). Only a few take the time to learn VimScript. In my humble opinion, when I took the time to try and learn it a while back, I ascertained that it was not worth my time.

Having never written a line of Lua in my life, on the other hand, I was able to pick it up in exponentially less time than the small bit of VimScript that I "know". Lua is not a fantastic language, but it is infinitely better than VimScript.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#274

Post by cjohansson »

fmakunbound wrote: post #81
yewenjie wrote: post #13

AFAIK Neovim 0.5 uses tree-sitter. Is there any effort to integrate tree-sitter with Emacs in an easy way?

Emacs already has Semantic https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/semantic... which seems similar in functionality. It’s been around for ages but more recently it has become part of Emacs proper.

Semantic is used less and less I would say, there is not enough people involved in keeping it and it's grammars updated, it also suffers lack of asychronicity. Tree-sitter and LSP has the advantage of re-using code for multiple editors

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#275

Post by jrop »

simias wrote: post #52
SPBS wrote: post #15

I use nvim in the terminal and gvim/macvim on the desktop. I don't like how the nvim community seems to be throwing themselves wholeheartedly into lua and lua-only plugins (vimscript plugins are better because they work with both vim and neovim). Switching to init.lua also means losing all compatibility with vim, and I cannot fathom why people would want to do that considering that there is nothing that init.vim cann…

Vimscript is terrible though. I switched from Emacs to Vim (and later, neovim) last year and the shock of going from elisp to vimscript was intense. I even contributed some small patches to a couple of vim plugins which meant writing and debugging vimscript, I hated every second of it. I'm not a huge fan of Lua either mind you, but I'll take it any day of the week over vimscript.

I've always wanted to write Vim plugins, and as soon as 0.5 hits stable, I'm looking forward to trying! I won't touch VimScript with a 10-foot pole, and I write code for a living. It's not worth my time, and it does not commute to other things that I'd rather be spending my time coding.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#276

Post by mcepl »

diegocg wrote: post #100
azinman2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you find your brain can actually work that way? My issue with all of these relative jump points, repeat this N times, etc of VIM is by the time I’ve calculated in my mind what the command should be I’d have already done it with just standard navigation/mark/yank/repeat. But perhaps you have galaxy brain ;)

The way vim works is actually the opposite of what your brain wants, this is one of the reasons why learning vim tricks is hard. The vim model is "action-object" (eg dw, delete word). A more natural, friendly and interactive model is the opposite, "object-action": first you select the text, your editor highlights the text, then you apply actions to the selection, one by one, and see what happens after each one. Becau…

Whenever you say words “natural”, or “friendly” you actually mean “what I am used to”. As the saying goes “Basically, the only ‘intuitive’ interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.” (Usenet discussion about Apple Macintosh).

So, no, I spent couple of years struggling with non-modal editors, where I had that feeling all the time “I have no idea how to do it effectively in this $EDITOR, while I know five keypresses which would do it for me in vim.” Finally, I have liberated myself and switched back to vim.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#277

Post by felixr »

jgb1984 wrote: post #239

I'm a long time (20+ years) vim user, and neovim doesn't fit my use case. I've tried it, most recently today, to have a look at LSP and treesitter. Treesitter added different syntax colors, but the result wasn't necessarily better than vanilla vim. More like an overly decorated christmas tree. LSP and other "make it into an IDE" I usually turn off after a few minutes, it's more of a hindrance than a help. I mainly co…

> Treesitter added different syntax colors, but the result wasn't necessarily better than vanilla vim. More like an overly decorated christmas tree.

The problem here is that people use treesitter to add more colours to distinguish more types of tokens. For me this is too much and the colours lose their meaning. I recently switched to a colour scheme that only changes the colours for strings, numbers and comments. Treesitter allowed be to add very targeted minimal highlighting. For example, I know highlight the first line of a function definition. This makes it very easy to see function scopes.

We don't really need more highlighting, but meaningful highlighting. With treesitter you can do both.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#278

Post by [deleted] »

azinman2 wrote: post #67
curriculum wrote: post #37

I'm most excited for the treesitter integration and its potential to amplify Vim's "killer feature": text editing as a language. Vim's editing language feels most powerful when I'm using its text objects: "ciw" means "change in word", "cis" means "change in sentence", and so on. But Vim's built-in text objects are not always a perfect match for the code you're editing. Suppose you want to change the first argument of…

Do you find your brain can actually work that way? My issue with all of these relative jump points, repeat this N times, etc of VIM is by the time I’ve calculated in my mind what the command should be I’d have already done it with just standard navigation/mark/yank/repeat. But perhaps you have galaxy brain ;)

[deleted]

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#279

Post by qwerty456127 »

> Language Server Protocol is created by Microsoft, RedHat and Codenvy, which provides language features (e.g. completion, navigation, formatting, and so on) through JSON-based RPC protocol...

I'm missing out on this. Is it on par (at least potentially - in terms of what it enables you to implement) with JetBrains IDEs and ReSharper already?

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#280

Post by e12e »

jgb1984 wrote: post #239

I'm a long time (20+ years) vim user, and neovim doesn't fit my use case. I've tried it, most recently today, to have a look at LSP and treesitter. Treesitter added different syntax colors, but the result wasn't necessarily better than vanilla vim. More like an overly decorated christmas tree. LSP and other "make it into an IDE" I usually turn off after a few minutes, it's more of a hindrance than a help. I mainly co…

> they removed gvim (which is what I use in most cases). There is no comparable third party GUI like gvim available. They're all either abandoned, unstable or simply very different with lots of bling and gimmicks.

I'm not sure I understand what you're missing from neovim-qt?

https://github.com/equalsraf/neovim-qt

I suppose maybe we have diffuse cases - but I'm fairly certain I'm running qt neovim, and not nvim in a terminal - and I'm not aware of any issues?

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