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Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

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Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#161

Post by coliveira »

addicted wrote: post #83
oblio wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, Vimscript sucks. Using a more mainstream language would be great for a modern advanced editor. Vim has a ton of Vimscript plugins but I wonder how long it will take the Neovim community to replicate most of their functionality in Lua. I'd guess that not that long.

I’m pretty sure that the primary reason we don’t have more VIM plugins, despite many more emacs users, is vimscript being terrible. If vim had a more usable scripting language it would have easily surpassed emacs in plugins and more importantly, since plugins would have been more popular, vim would have been developed in a way to make it more extensible and nvim wouldn’t even be needed.

The philosophy of vim is to be able to do a lot without the need for complex plugins, as opposed to emacs' world view. That's why vim script is good only for simple scripting tasks.

I think emacs having more plugins is a consequence of its design and philosophy, not the extension language itself. After all, emacs lisp is not the best language in the world and only a small group really knows it beyond the basics.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#162

Post by gorjusborg »

anaganisk wrote: post #36

I have an honest question, the real advantage of Vi is its installed everywhere, and just works over ssh. What is the benefit of a terminal IDE like neovim or vim with tens of something plugins? Vscode or other powerful IDEs do the work much better.

From my experience, plugins add 'nice to haves', while the main benefit of vim is the core (modal editing, fast navigation, etc.).

If I get on a linux machine other than my workstation, I'll generally not install any plugins and still be able to get the job done without getting frustrated.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#163

Post by bombela »

curriculum wrote: post #84
azinman2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you find your brain can actually work that way? My issue with all of these relative jump points, repeat this N times, etc of VIM is by the time I’ve calculated in my mind what the command should be I’d have already done it with just standard navigation/mark/yank/repeat. But perhaps you have galaxy brain ;)

No galaxy brain here ;) I generally don't use counts. If I want to go down a few lines, I don't count the number of lines and use 4j or whatever, I instead use / to search for the exact place I want to move to. This feels more natural and preserves the jump-list, so I can ctrl-o back to where I was. Same if I want to delete a few words. I don't count how many I want to delete and do 4daw, instead I do daw and press .…

Try the plugin easy motion. It changed my life.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#164

Post by haolez »

Nowadays, I'm more tempted to use something more mouse focused for my geek itches. Like Acme, for example. Neovim looks cool, but I've long realized that I spend a lot more time reading than writing code. The automations and flexibility of the multi modal mode do not matter much for my use case.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#165

Post by rajin444 »

mjlbach wrote: post #61
rajin444 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried out the native LSP support few months ago and the docs + features for it seemed poor. I went back to coc.vim

Have you checked it out recently? I overhauled the documentation twice since January. Most recently, I dramatically simplified the documentation based on user feedback, expanded the wiki pages, and created an "advanced" readme for power users.

I haven't! It was actually late last year I checked it out so I'll have to give it another shot.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#166

Post by benhurmarcel »

diegocg wrote: post #100
azinman2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you find your brain can actually work that way? My issue with all of these relative jump points, repeat this N times, etc of VIM is by the time I’ve calculated in my mind what the command should be I’d have already done it with just standard navigation/mark/yank/repeat. But perhaps you have galaxy brain ;)

The way vim works is actually the opposite of what your brain wants, this is one of the reasons why learning vim tricks is hard. The vim model is "action-object" (eg dw, delete word). A more natural, friendly and interactive model is the opposite, "object-action": first you select the text, your editor highlights the text, then you apply actions to the selection, one by one, and see what happens after each one. Becau…

So Kakoune is like RPN (Reverse Polish Notation), and Vim is like Polish Notation then?

For sure any user of RPN would agree that it makes more sense to type the operation after the object. Not sure how that translates to modal text editing though.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#167

Post by xwdv »

haolez wrote: post #164

Nowadays, I'm more tempted to use something more mouse focused for my geek itches. Like Acme, for example. Neovim looks cool, but I've long realized that I spend a lot more time reading than writing code. The automations and flexibility of the multi modal mode do not matter much for my use case.

Ironic, because vim and neovim are specifically designed for programmers that spend more time reading than writing code. You can get to damn near any line in a massive project with just a couple key strokes.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#168

Post by alpaca128 »

ponyous wrote: post #150
alpaca128 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the biggest strengths of Vim imho. Defining new keybindings is so intuitive and flexible you wonder why it's usually done differently. With Vim you basically just tell it to map any sequence of inputs to any other sequence of inputs. If you know how to do something in Vim you can define a keybinding for it. And because Vim is 100% controllable via the keyboard you can bind anything to a shortcut.

I can never remember what all those different maps do: ':map', ':map!', ':nmap', ':vmap', ':imap', ':cmap', ':smap', ':xmap', ':omap', ':lmap', etc. do. There are bunch of questions on StackOverflow about different mapping options so I wouldn't say it's intuitive at all.

The differences that actually matter are self explanatory: map is for all modes, imap for insert mode, nmap for normal mode and vmap for visual mode (& tmap for terminal mode in NeoVim). The rest can be safely ignored as far as I can tell.

Little confession: I have no idea what e.g. the difference between "nmap" and "nnoremap" is. But after years of randomly mixing them in hundreds of bindings without a noticeable difference it doesn't seem to matter. Just use map, nmap, imap and vmap, avoid duplicates and everything will be fine imho.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#170

Post by bisby »

alpaca128 wrote: post #75
curriculum wrote: post #37

I'm most excited for the treesitter integration and its potential to amplify Vim's "killer feature": text editing as a language. Vim's editing language feels most powerful when I'm using its text objects: "ciw" means "change in word", "cis" means "change in sentence", and so on. But Vim's built-in text objects are not always a perfect match for the code you're editing. Suppose you want to change the first argument of…

I'm excited about it because Vim's usual syntax highlighting is rather fragile. As far as I understand it Vim does the highlighting in the same thread, and to ensure good performance it enforces a time limit for the file parsing. In larger files this frequently leads to weirdly flickering highlighting when scrolling. Going from that to actual syntax parsing is a dream come true.

That explains a lot. I often have a syntax highlighting quirk where it thinks that a fold has an open quotation mark in it. And will highlight everything below the fold as if it's a part of a string. I unfold, and clears it all up. but it's annoying in the moment.

I look forward to all of this

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