I went to Vietnam a few years ago. The locals I spoke to had a very dim of view of their government, saying that it was deeply corrupt. It is a shame that the extraordinary sacrifices made fighting the French and then the US resulted in such poor outcome for the Vietnamese people.
Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side
501–510 of 624 posts
Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side
#502Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, the world is a chaotic reflexive system and trying to manipulate it always creates unintended consequences. The US absolutely does dumb stuff all the time, and power always gets abused. But for a contrarian view on the “US Bad” narrative, check out a book called The Accidental Superpower Here’s a good summary of the book: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/your-book-review-the-a... It presents an interesting…
I agree with you that a “US Bad” view which paints everything America as evil is misguided. But also the other extreme which portraits US as a savior and protector is also not true. From the book: > American disinterest in the world means that American security guarantees are unlikely to be honored. Competitions held in check for the better part of a century will return. Wars of opportunism will come back into fashio…
Didn't we have that equilibrium (sorta) with USSR? I don't think it was a good kind of equilibrium - mutually assured destruction and all.
Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side
#503The US is repeatedly on the wrong side of history. And they cannot even face that. Red scare. Supporting neo-liberal-to-fascist govts. Yelling democracy but then killing democratically chosen representatives when they do not "suit de US likings". Bitching about some "meddling" in their election when the history is full of US meddling in democratic process of other nations. Giving "foreign aid" to apartheid regimes. U…
I don't think the "other side of history" is much better most of the time
Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side
#504My ex-wife Grandmother had spent over 10 years (1964-1975) in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia as a reporter on the Vietnamese side during the Vietnam War and consecutive conflicts (Vietnamese intervention in Cambodia 1978). She was the first European to walk all length of Ho Chi Minh trail, lived in Saigon undercover during American occupation and wrote couple of books about the Vietnam Wars. She was telling a lot of stor…
>> reporter on the Vietnamese side Which Vietnamese side?
The one not artificially kept alive by a foreign power through a puppet regime.
Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side
#505Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> reporter on the Vietnamese side Which Vietnamese side?
The one not artificially kept alive by a foreign power through a puppet regime.
I think you will still need to be more specific: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_in_the_Vietnam_War
Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side
#506Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no 'right' and 'wrong' side of history. There are complicated shades of grey coloured by propaganda. And if there was a right side of history, the US has a very credible claim to it. They've pushed science and the arts forward, promoted freedom as a cultural aspiration rather than rule by a monarch and generally acted as a credible supporting force for the greatest improvement of living standards the world h…
> promoted freedom as a cultural aspiration rather than rule by a monarch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... Iran '53 and Guatemala '54 are some of my favourites, as is Timor.
Both Iran and Guatemala were operations undertaken by the CIA with absolutely no knowledge by the American public.
You do understand this right? At no point were the American public consulted by the intelligence agencies when they did these operations.
It's rather childish to retcon history by implying that declassified operations that were deeply unethical were endorsed by the American public at the time. These operations were ultra-classified in the American public had no idea about them for decades. Do you think that's fair to make the assertion that the American public do not promote freedom as a cultural aspiration based on this?
Meanwhile millions of people have lost their freedom in the last year when the CCP officially retook Hong Kong and violated the treaty with the British. They are literally being deprived of their democratic rights. Less than 10% of the Chinese public have any form of voice in their government (via CCP membership). Hong Kong is vastly less free than it was a year ago. But sure attack the US for crimes committed 70 years ago, while ignoring what's happening as we speak.
Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side
#507I went to Vietnam a few years ago. The locals I spoke to had a very dim of view of their government, saying that it was deeply corrupt. It is a shame that the extraordinary sacrifices made fighting the French and then the US resulted in such poor outcome for the Vietnamese people.
As a counterpoint, it does not seem to a foreigner that their government is worse than average
Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side
#508Earlier quoted context omitted.
Technically it was three, the third Indochina war took place between Vietnam and China
Don’t forget the 5 years of Japanese occupation sandwiched in there.
Japanese occupation was before the two wars cited though. It went French colony -> Japanese occupation -> War against the French -> War between North and South (with US siding with te South)
Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side
#509I saw a French movie about a French soldier in Vietnam set in 1945 I was also in France at the time when viewing the movie, it was very surreal in so many ways to be empathizing for a protagonist on one of the enemy sides - from an American perspective as I am an American. But I had never seen anything depicted about that war decades before the US got involved. I had never seen a war movie produced outside of Hollywo…
There are some depictions of the French occupation of Vietnam in the beginning of "We Were Soldiers".
Also The Quiet American
Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side
#510Earlier quoted context omitted.
> goodwill the US had from ending WWII is sadly running out. Sadly? It's about time. Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, most of Latin America, many places in Africa. They all have a US hangover. > US felt invincible after it and tried to do the right thing. Serious? What propaganda outlet do you read? They try to help their big biz make max profits. That's all. That's not "the right thing". Yeah sure they sell…
Yet the US is still the premier nation that everyone tries to immigrate to, because as a nation it actually works. The same can’t be said of many of the nations you mentioned, and that was before U.S involvement. The cool narrative of today is to point a finger at the west, but most people I think who espouse this view haven’t had the misery of living under the absolutely nuts regimes that exist in this world.
So your argument is: if Finland is a nice place to live, then it has the moral right to invade any country where standards of living are lower?
Also before US involvement all countries were colonies, do you think being repeatedly invaded and bombed has any negative effects?