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Hemingway, Hounded by the Feds

nytimes.com

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Re: Hemingway, Hounded by the Feds

#41

Post by mattmanser »

My personal feeling is that if the feds hadn't been following him, he would have latched onto something else to be paranoid about. He was depressed and developed paranoia. It's very unlikely that they were the cause of the depression or contributed to a faster downfall.

Anecdotally, I had a close family member go through what sounds like very much what Hemingway was going through, although it was the builders out to get them, not the feds. They would seem them trailing them everywhere, every tradesman, every building site, every van was a tail set up for them and them alone.

The “Why would two auditors be working in the middle of the night? Of course it’s my account.” echos the things that they would say. It was extremely distressing for them and us.

It recently happened again, this time the paranoia prominently featured the egyptians. They had recently given a talk on the history of the egyptians. That's all it took.

Luckily for us we lived in an age where they have a pill which made it all go away in less than 2 weeks.

Re: Hemingway, Hounded by the Feds

#42

Post by dlss »

mattmanser wrote: post #41

My personal feeling is that if the feds hadn't been following him, he would have latched onto something else to be paranoid about. He was depressed and developed paranoia. It's very unlikely that they were the cause of the depression or contributed to a faster downfall. Anecdotally, I had a close family member go through what sounds like very much what Hemingway was going through, although it was the builders out to…

Huh? The difference between a crazy person and a sane person isn't necessarily what they say -- it's what the world is like.

>> The “Why would two auditors be working in the middle of the night? Of course it’s my account.” echos the things that they would say.

The difference between Hemingway and your friends is that Hemingway turned out to be right. The chance that someone paranoid would /randomly/ guess the truth about the world is /very, very/ low. That means his brain was probably working well.

Now, as for the question of how you should feel when you are tailed by the FBI for several years -- I think "paranoia" (read: taking steps to maintain personal privacy) isn't an absurd response

Re: Hemingway, Hounded by the Feds

#43

Post by mattmanser »

dlss wrote: post #42
mattmanser wrote: post #41

My personal feeling is that if the feds hadn't been following him, he would have latched onto something else to be paranoid about. He was depressed and developed paranoia. It's very unlikely that they were the cause of the depression or contributed to a faster downfall. Anecdotally, I had a close family member go through what sounds like very much what Hemingway was going through, although it was the builders out to…

Huh? The difference between a crazy person and a sane person isn't necessarily what they say -- it's what the world is like. >> The “Why would two auditors be working in the middle of the night? Of course it’s my account.” echos the things that they would say. The difference between Hemingway and your friends is that Hemingway turned out to be right. The chance that someone paranoid would /randomly/ guess the truth a…

He was right that two random bank people in the middle of nowhere were auditing him?

This isn't reddit, read the article first before posting.

Re: Hemingway, Hounded by the Feds

#44

Post by phereford »

GrooveStomp wrote: post #28

This is a chilling tale. To think that the very act of monitoring Hemingway contributed so directly to his demise.

While this opinion piece seemed to create the notion that the FBI caused his demise, no one but Hemmingway knows of the actual incidents that took place to lead him to that belief.

I am sure there were many other incidents occurring in his life that contributed just as much to his early departure.

I can only imagine what it was like back in that era, specializing in a SPECIFIC field with no tangents and suddenly being unable to perform your specialty due to any reason. If anything, this probably lead more to his demise than the FBI.

Re: Hemingway, Hounded by the Feds

#45

Post by dlss »

mattmanser wrote: post #43
dlss wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? The difference between a crazy person and a sane person isn't necessarily what they say -- it's what the world is like. >> The “Why would two auditors be working in the middle of the night? Of course it’s my account.” echos the things that they would say. The difference between Hemingway and your friends is that Hemingway turned out to be right. The chance that someone paranoid would /randomly/ guess the truth a…

He was right that two random bank people in the middle of nowhere were auditing him? This isn't reddit, read the article first before posting.

I did read the article -- there isn't enough information to make a specific call... but given that the article is specifically about how Hemingway wasn't paranoid, I think we should assume he was right.

This isn't 4chan, read comments before replying :p

Re: Hemingway, Hounded by the Feds

#47

Post by alanh »

Gaussian wrote: post #37

A man haunted by more than the feds (another editorial from this weekend; Chicago Tribune): http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/ct-oped-0701-hemi...

Good read, thanks.

Last paragraph was really weird, though. An unsourced, odd vision of afterlife described as "perhaps" Hemingway's? Was he even superstitious?

Re: Hemingway, Hounded by the Feds

#48

Post by mattmanser »

dlss wrote: post #45
mattmanser wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was right that two random bank people in the middle of nowhere were auditing him? This isn't reddit, read the article first before posting.

I did read the article -- there isn't enough information to make a specific call... but given that the article is specifically about how Hemingway wasn't paranoid, I think we should assume he was right. This isn't 4chan, read comments before replying :p

As we turned into Ketchum, Ernest said quietly: “Duke, pull over. Cut your lights.” He peered across the street at a bank. Two men were working inside. “What is it?” I asked.

“Auditors. The F.B.I.’s got them going over my account.”

You're telling me the FBI were in that bank? And even if by some billion to one shot they were in that bank, you're telling me they were auditing his account?

Whatever.

Re: Hemingway, Hounded by the Feds

#49

Post by philwelch »

burgerbrain wrote: post #24
philwelch wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's speculative, and not really that true. My dad (born 1927) has high blood pressure, and he's on the same no-salt diet his father was on. Some things don't progress. Sometimes technology gets to a local maximum and the next breakthrough is perpetually about 50 years away (i.e. energy production). We won't be the first generation to die of cancer despite spending our youths convinced that they would have cured ca…

That's a really terrible example. The survival rates of many forms of cancer have dramatically increased in recent years. The only reason we don't have a "the cure" is because if you understand what cancer really is, that is a nonsensical concept.

Sure, but cancer still remains a leading cause of death along with heart disease. In other words, no one is living that much longer even if cancers earlier in life can be successfully treated. And that has almost nothing to do with the eventual degradation of the mind and sensory organs that nearly everyone experiences in old age.

Re: Hemingway, Hounded by the Feds

#50

Post by dlss »

mattmanser wrote: post #48
dlss wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did read the article -- there isn't enough information to make a specific call... but given that the article is specifically about how Hemingway wasn't paranoid, I think we should assume he was right. This isn't 4chan, read comments before replying :p

As we turned into Ketchum, Ernest said quietly: “Duke, pull over. Cut your lights.” He peered across the street at a bank. Two men were working inside. “What is it?” I asked. “Auditors. The F.B.I.’s got them going over my account.” You're telling me the FBI were in that bank? And even if by some billion to one shot they were in that bank, you're telling me they were auditing his account? Whatever.

I guess it comes down to how much extra information Hemingway had.

Do you think Hemingway had an account at that bank, or do you think he was wrong about that?

Do you think Hemingway was correct about an audit, or do you think he was wrong about that?

Do you think Hemingway had any information other than just (where I have a bank account), and (am being audited) that he used to infer that the F.B.I. had the bankers up late? (Including tips from other banks he used, tips from friends in that bank in particular, phone calls asking him to update information pre-audit, etc)

>> You're telling me the FBI were in that bank?

From the article we have plenty of evidence that Hemingway was quite perceptive about stuff like this. Also, my understanding is that Hemingway wasn't the sort to say random stuff.

>> And even if by some billion to one shot they were in that bank, you're telling me they were auditing his account?

Since we can be pretty sure it was in fact Hemingway's bank, and since we can be pretty sure that being investigated by the F.B.I. involves and audit, and since the investigation was only two years in length... the idea that it's a billion to one shot is _absurd_. Several nights over the two year time span this quote came from would have involved auditing. You're either not thinking properly, or your trolling.

The way to think is to _start with the data_, and then figure out the _most likely hypothesis_... NOT figure out which of your friends a quote reminds you of, and the likelihood that your friend would be lying.

Okay, hope that was enlightening for you. I'm off!

(this will be my last reply, as I'm 40% sure you're trolling at this point)

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