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Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

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Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#271

Post by gota »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #175
jimmies wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just say the government is super evil and they covered up 99 deaths every 100 deaths for some reason, although we have no evidence that they did. They lost 50,000 people. The US lost half a million. Are you happy now?

Let me ask you something. Do you think a south-east asian country with ~100,000,000 people only had 50 people die from the COVID-19 virus? Answer honestly

No horse in this race - but

If you have any indication that the numbers are fabricated you're better off posting them (or any references at all). Otherwise you just sound like you're appealing to prejudices, like as if "south-east asian" countries couldn't possibly have had an effective epidemiologic response.

(It might not have - you might be right - still, the form of your argument is completely wrong for fruitful discussion)

For an example of a reference that is a counter-argument to your point, see - https://ourworldindata.org/covid-exemplar-vietnam

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#272

Post by JCharante »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #175
jimmies wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just say the government is super evil and they covered up 99 deaths every 100 deaths for some reason, although we have no evidence that they did. They lost 50,000 people. The US lost half a million. Are you happy now?

Let me ask you something. Do you think a south-east asian country with ~100,000,000 people only had 50 people die from the COVID-19 virus? Answer honestly

I've spent time studying abroad in Vietnam so I think I can answer honestly.

One day, I went camping with some friends. We then returned to the capital and 2 days later I saw the high rise she lived in on the news. She lives in a high rise that's about 38 floors, with around 30 units per floor, so that's about 1000 units. Someone who lived somewhere in that high rise had tested positive for covid so they placed the building under a police barricade. A couple days later they limited the restrictions to only the floors the patient (zero) had been to.

Right now they're experiencing a really bad covid outbreak, and I'm not entirely confident that this isn't the big one that will lead to non-stop community transmission like in the US.

There are a ton of foreigners in the country, I know maaaany people working for embassies from western countries, if there are shady stuff going on you would hear it from them.

A recent development is that they aren't publishing the schedules of an infected person anymore. Before they use to say:

J.S who works at the Samsung Plant on 14 Main St. on the 14th of May visited the Starbucks from 2pm-3pm on Xuan Dieu street, then he visited the au co flower market from 3pm-4:30pm, and then went to Karaoke with colleagues at 54 Blueberry Lane from 5pm-9:30pm, afterwhich he took a cab home whose driver has not yet been identified.

And they would do that for every day since their suspected time of infection. So it was extremely privacy invasive but it helps with contact tracing. Now they will just announce the locations, I presume it's because there's too many new cases.

Recently in the news there was a couple who tested positive for covid but wouldn't come out of their house for 2 or 4 hours against police & health worker's demands. If you have covid, you are forced into hospitalization so you can be monitored by doctors and not infect others.

If you so much as went to the same grocery store at the same time as a covid patient you're going to get sent into centralized quarantine.

They know they can't handle millions of cases so they have to crack down hard on any cases. The death toll last week was only 30, it's these part few weeks that it's been steadily going up.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#273

Post by akdor1154 »

jollybean wrote: post #243
abrookewood wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia is pretty unambiguous: "Following Vietnamese victory against the French in the First Indochina War, which ended in 1954, the nation was divided into two rival states: communist North and anti-communist South. Conflicts intensified in the Vietnam War, which saw extensive American intervention in support of South Vietnam, while the Soviets and the PRC supported the North, which ended with North Vietnamese vic…

I'm doubtful that this is really the best way to put it. The US escalated it's involvement until the early 1970's when via strategic bombing of the North (which the US was unwilling to do previously), decisively destroyed the North Vietnamese ability to fight. Then, the Americans left. A couple of years later, the North Vietnamese rehabilitated their forces, and invaded the South. The reality is such different perspe…

I'll happily accept 'if the US didn't pull out before winning, they might have won', but this isn't the same as 'the US won'.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#274

Post by badmadrad »

mort1merp0 wrote: post #164

I have a friend who served as a tank gunner in Vietnam. Has was wounded and sent home. He ended up with 4 teeth left after his jaw has been shot. He refused to accept that the US lost. No amount of reasoning would make him budge on that opinion. I dropped the subject as it was a risk to our friendship. I understand where he is coming from though. To have lost so many friends in addition to his personal injury, it wou…

it wasn't all for nothing. there was time when Americans cared about advancing a free world. Free from soviet style communism. And this was an ideal worth sacrificing for. Unfortunately, Americans have been demoralized by propaganda to the point of seeing freedom as something not worth dying for.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#276

Post by objektif »

badmadrad wrote: post #255

The US was fighting a proxy war with the soviet union. We had no interest in defeating the vietcong as much as stopping the spread of communism. Ho Chi Minh was a KGB agent and the communist revolution was largely born of soviet agitprop. So there is another layer to this conflict. Even though vietnam "won" they really were just puppets in a shadow war and it came at a huge cost for them. Much less than US.

Are you saying millions of Vietnamese who really wanted to kick out what they believed to be invaders puppets???? It is very CNN of you to say such a thing.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#277

Post by [deleted] »

michelpp wrote: post #217

"From 1964 to 1972, the wealthiest and most powerful nation in the history of the world made a maximum military effort, with everything short of atomic bombs, to defeat a nationalist revolutionary movement in a tiny, peasant country—and failed. When the United States fought in Vietnam, it was organized modern technology versus organized human beings, and the human beings won." A Peoples History of the United States -…

[deleted]

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#278

Post by crossroadsguy »

kumarvvr wrote: post #269
crossroadsguy wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree to some extent but since you referred to the past I’m kinda doubtful where you’re going with it. Nehru was quite a long-term thinker and a statesman. Hell it’s a miracle he navigated the country through the hell hole the cold war was. Sad thing is he inherited a country and the people who just couldn’t rise above a certain level and that was where the Brits left us. On top of that the Brits ensured they left…

This sounds suspiciously like whataboutism. "That person may have done better, but what about the present person?"

I actually updated my comment and mentioned whataboutism I saw in your comment. Glad that we both saw it. Also I usually don’t check other comments of a person so I was not able to be sure. Now I am. Also HN (selectively) hates flame wars so I’d say let’s stop here.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#279

Post by ClumsyPilot »

xzlzx wrote: post #201
nine_k wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many wars did the US win (as in "achieved the political goals") since WWII? Korean war: half won, half lost. Vietnam war: lost. Grenada invasion: sort of won. Gulf war 1991: I'd say won, despite Saddam staying in power. Gulf war II: I'd say lost, despite Saddam deposition. Afghanistan: lost, despite the killing of bin Laden. Syria: can't tell yet. It's a pretty depressing tally. With that, I'd say that the US was…

IMO it’s a tad silly to say that the U.S. lost these wars. Can you really lose a war with a massive nuclear arsenal on your side? It’s crazy that this seems to never be mentioned. This seems quite similar to Americans demanding their gun rights to protect themselves from the government. Well, I hate to inform you of this, but the government could out gun you since time immemorial. It’s a wild argument for gun rights.

"Can you really lose a war with a massive nuclear arsenal on your side?"

How is that usefull unless you are willing to commit genocide?

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#280

Post by cloverich »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #175
jimmies wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just say the government is super evil and they covered up 99 deaths every 100 deaths for some reason, although we have no evidence that they did. They lost 50,000 people. The US lost half a million. Are you happy now?

Let me ask you something. Do you think a south-east asian country with ~100,000,000 people only had 50 people die from the COVID-19 virus? Answer honestly

Do you believe widespread and aggressive quarantine and contact tracing are an effective tool against COVID-19? 50 does seem suspicious. I am skeptical of the data. And yet, if a government (and popluation) actually went along with contact tracing and (real) quarantine, I truly believe it would be relatively straight forward to contain and stop the spread of the virus.
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