Live data from Hacker News

Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

rarehistoricalphotos.com

151–160 of 624 posts

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#151
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? I've also colorized pictures and video frames using these same sorts of processes. It's reasonably quick and works pretty well

It’s fake, and pretty soon people will not even want to entertain the idea of looking at photos or videos that are not in color.

That’s discounting the scores of people who prefer to watch cinema in black and white. Many movies are now coming out with black and white variants (Snyder cut of Justice League, Mad Max: Fury Road etc) black and white isn’t going anywhere. Saying this is like saying people won’t want to read books any more because digital text exists.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#152
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? I've also colorized pictures and video frames using these same sorts of processes. It's reasonably quick and works pretty well

It’s fake, and pretty soon people will not even want to entertain the idea of looking at photos or videos that are not in color.

Photos are also fake, did you know the past wasn't really black and white?

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#153
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was huge ethnic and class component to the Vietnam conflict. In fact, in many ways it was far more important than the nominal communist character of the North, at least from the Vietnamese perspective. Here's a factoid I recently learned: something like 80+% of Vietnamese refugees were ethnic Chinese (Hoa people), despite constituting a minority of the population from which they fled. Rarely discussed in Americ…

I just googled when 'The Ugly American' came out. 1958! Nobody can say "noone could have known". I'm not an expert on Vietnam, but I'll just say that whatever their problems with a Chinese merchant class, the problems with a Western burning-villages class were probably bigger at the time.

I'm not trying to defend American policies in Vietnam. But Vietnam became independent in 1954, albeit split between North and South. The Vietnam War as typically understood by Americans, and as encompassing most well known atrocities, wouldn't begin for another 10 years.

Also, American and, more generally, anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist discourses tend to infantilize people in these countries. I doubt the Vietnamese had a simplistic, love-hate relationship with either the French or the Americans even after the innumerable atrocities. Just like in every other nation even the masses were and are capable of complex strategic, mixed-motive thinking. Look at the sheer devastation America has caused in Iraq and Afghanistan, yet AFAIU neither most Iraqis nor most Afghanis wish for U.S. involvement to completely disappear. Americans would never believe themselves capable of pressing a war out of pure spite, anger, or retaliation; yet we somehow think other groups do? IOW, there's something problematic in thinking that what fundamentally drove the Vietnamese was a response to American atrocities. Far more likely (and consonant with the notion that all communities around the world tend to behave similarly) is that those atrocities exacerbated underlying, primary dynamics. Afterall, the merchant class by definition didn't tend to live on rice farms. They were centered in the cities.

The U.S. tried to implement many of the same policies the British did in Malaysia. During the communist insurgency in Malaysia the British corralled ethnic Chinese (the primary supporters of communism, such as they were--i.e. it wasn't that simple) into cities and towns. (To this day ethnic Chinese can't own rural farms outright in Malaysia.) But Chinese communities were already mostly urban, and were of course a minority (20-30%). It was a plan that arguably worked by accident. But such a strategy was never going to work in Vietnam because the dynamics were totally flipped. That would have been much more obvious if the U.S. saw the ethnic divisions for what they were.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#154
post #13
post #4

These are some great photos! But I really do wonder if "the winning side" was _actually_ the winning side. It seems to me that nobody won, and it's very likely that the Vietnamese people ultimately lost bigtime. USA fought a similar war a decade earlier in Korea and now South Korea is one of the preeminent countries in the entire world. Imagine what could have been for South Vietnam? Instead the entire country has be…

Well, during and after the Korean War, South Korea was under a corrupt dictator who killed several hundred thousand civilians for being communist. Its economy didn't improve until 60s, and it couldn't be really called a democratic country until mid-90s. So it's a bit of a stretch to claim that South Korea became today's South Korea because it survived the war in 1953. One could equally say that Vietnam's economic dev…

South Korea literally wouldn’t exist today without UN intervention.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China was not on friendly terms with the north. They invaded Vietnam shortly after the Americans left, in response to Vietnam's actions in Cambodia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian%E2%80%93Vietnamese_W...

Lol. That's later story. China supported north in the Vietnam war, is this even a question? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_in_the_Vietnam_War

No? My point is that Vietnam and China have a centuries-long history of antagonism; to take China's support of the North during the Vietnam War as anything other than realpolitik is to miss the greater context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Vietnam_relation...

FWIW, I agree with you regarding the dangers of communist purges- I lived in Laos in the late 70's/early 80's. I saw plenty of first-hand examples of what happens.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#156
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? I've also colorized pictures and video frames using these same sorts of processes. It's reasonably quick and works pretty well

It’s fake, and pretty soon people will not even want to entertain the idea of looking at photos or videos that are not in color.

I didn't want to look at all the adds on the original page

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> USA took Iranian independence Iran problems began with islamic revolution, and USA had nothing to do with it, no? > Afghanistan was better of before US took it Which conflict you are talking about? War in Afghanistan started almost 50 years ago. > now Taliban controls more territory then they did before US came in Yeah, the US need to finish what it started. I think Trump decision to withdraw troops from Afghanista…

> Iran problems began with islamic revolution, and USA had nothing to do with it, no? This is incorrect. In 1953, the United States overthrew the democratically elected PM and installed a dictator. The Islamic Revolution was a response to that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...

I see, thanks.

Anyway, it does not disprove my point about countries which became dependent on US, and civil wars where one party is supported by the US.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you're talking about the acute win/loss of the Vietnam war, then absolutely the North Vietnamese won. If the USA really wanted to win the war then they could have done it outright in 1967. But that would have been very ugly. Not an option. Did the Vietnamese people win the war? No. They've been living in poverty for 50 years and most of them still are in 2021, 50 years later.

Maybe their soceity would have been more successful if it wasn't bombed to hell and back by the Americans then made a soft client state of the USSR and then boycotted by the West. If left to develop its communist government by itself, it could be like China today - a superpower that's going to overtake the USA by important measures. Lets stop pretending that years of war against a superpower didn't come at a cost for…

Various countries which were "bombed to hell and back" are doing well now. Various Europe countries, Korea, Japan, etc

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#159
post #100

I wrote a quick script the other day to colorize directories of family photos. I realized it would be cool to colorize these photos, too. Here's the album: https://imgur.com/a/aJbpMjf The script uses the Image Colorization API from DeepAi. Here's the repo for the colorizing model itself: https://github.com/jantic/DeOldify I don't think the DeepAi API allows you to adjust the model parameters, but you definitely can i…

Please don't do this.

I can understand the concern. It can mislead people about what the past really looked like.

An example: this same model colorized the Golden Gate white: https://camo.githubusercontent.com/3487a03626fd86d4f8c814636...

In my case I wasn't too concerned, since I was sharing the photos with my family, who understood they were artificially colorized. My father even asked me if it was possible to choose specific colours in articles of clothing, since it got those wrong. Nonetheless, to me and my family, it made our old photographs seem so close and alive, which made it worth it.

A good compromise may be to mark these retouched photos with a small watermark indicating that they have been altered. By the way, I think the colab instances running this model have the option to add watermarks for this reason (https://colab.research.google.com/github/jantic/DeOldify/blo...).

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#160
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? I've also colorized pictures and video frames using these same sorts of processes. It's reasonably quick and works pretty well

It’s fake, and pretty soon people will not even want to entertain the idea of looking at photos or videos that are not in color.

It’s not entirely fake. These colorization processes exaggerate information about the grayscale tones that our eyes can’t pick up due to subtlety or unfamiliarity with the time, place or people depicted. So while the colorized photos are not entirely faithful, they do tell us more about the scene the photo captured.
Post reply on HN