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Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

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Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#81

Post by [deleted] »

temp8964 wrote: post #50
pmoriarty wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If the U.S. did no get involved, the Chinese Communist government will support communists throw over government one after another, millions and millions more people will die in civil wars and communist cleansing." This sounds like the Domino Theory : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domino_theory

Chinese Communist government got involved in the communist evolutions in all the neighbor countries. And international communists did help each other in different countries to over throw legitimate government. Takeover the whole world was the goal of the international communists. Those are all facts, not a theory.

[deleted]

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#82

Post by mthoms »

rudolfwinestock wrote: post #16
tjpnz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen Vietnam in the last 10 years? Sure, it's not what I would call a wealthy country but I didn't see much poverty either over my 6 months there - some of it spent in the countryside.

As the parent post noted, that development comes from having American jobs exported there (e.g., those Nike factories). Being a socialist society, the wealth disparities are far more stark than what we have in the West.

In regards to income inequalities, "socialist" literally means the opposite of what you are implying.

See, for example "As Vietnam Gets Wealthier, Economic Inequality Also Gets Worse" - https://saigoneer.com/vietnam-news/17029-as-vietnam-gets-wea...

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#83

Post by ska »

stolen_biscuit wrote: post #74

There's a lot of people in the comments saying that Vietnam didn't really "win" the war. Their political and military objectives were ultimately successful, those of the US/South Vietnam were not. That's what a victory is. The cost of victory was very high, but it was a pretty unambiguous success for the Vietnamese.

It's impressive how deep some of these psychological things run nearly 50 years on. It was such a blow to self-image that, let alone all the related domestic political fallout, people still have a hard time accepting what happened.

The sheer amount of ink and celluloid spent trying to come to terms with this is awesome, and a little depressing.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#84

Post by nickthemagicman »

The American news media propaganda reported these people as savages and this to be a noble war for 'DEMOCRACY'.

The Vietnamese and the hippie generation knew this was bullshit.

The American news media may be the biggest propaganda machine in the history of the world.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#85

Post by jeeeb »

temp8964 wrote: post #40
pirate787 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China, which intervened in the Korean War at the moment of North Korea's complete military collapse, has not been held to account for the horrific North Korean regime it saved and still protects. China doesn't want a unified Korea and the North Korean people pay the price.

China fought in the Vietnam war too, just not as directly as the U.S. Without the U.S. supporting the south, the north will easily win with the full resource support from China. People who don't understand the historical context like to say the U.S. did not need to involve in the Vietnam civil war. This is simply wrong. If the U.S. did no get involved, the Chinese Communist government will support communists throw ov…

IIRC. It was primarily the USSR which backed the North Vietnamese.

By the early 70’s the communist block had split between the USSR and China. Vietnam was USSR not Chinese ally.

Not long after the end of the Vietnam war, China attacked Vietnam (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War) ostensibly as the Vietnamese had attacked Cambodia, by this stage supported by China (and the US) to dispose the Khmer Rouge.

Suffice to say it went badly for the PLA and thanks to the Vietnamese the Khmer Rouge was ultimately disposed.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#86

Post by thereare5lights »

rudolfwinestock wrote: post #47
temp8964 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China fought in the Vietnam war too, just not as directly as the U.S. Without the U.S. supporting the south, the north will easily win with the full resource support from China. People who don't understand the historical context like to say the U.S. did not need to involve in the Vietnam civil war. This is simply wrong. If the U.S. did no get involved, the Chinese Communist government will support communists throw ov…

To add to the above, as much as some people want to mock America's involvement in Vietnam, one must note that The Domino Theory (used to justify that involvement) came true. Granted, the worst case scenario did not happen (Australia was spared communist takeover), but what actually happened was horrific, nonetheless. Laos and Cambodia fell to communism, in part thanks to communist forces from Vietnam. And anyone who…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%E1%BB%B9_Lai_massacre

That's just one of them that we have evidence of. We know this was not a one off event.

Anyone who pulls the line of "Domino Theory" and "America was just fighting communism" must note all the war crimes that the US committed and was never held responsible for.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#87

Post by vmception »

stolen_biscuit wrote: post #74

There's a lot of people in the comments saying that Vietnam didn't really "win" the war. Their political and military objectives were ultimately successful, those of the US/South Vietnam were not. That's what a victory is. The cost of victory was very high, but it was a pretty unambiguous success for the Vietnamese.

Yeah I dont really understand the cognitive dissonance people have over that war.

Vietnam has a single party Communist Party that teaches Marxist ideals while having upgraded to state capital patches like every other marxist ideology worshipping party. They are geopolitically irrelevant enough for that never to bother anyone. The US was there to stop that specific thing from happening and didnt. US lost, Vietnam was unified and the control was consolidated under Vietnamese representatives of the communist party and for them they won. That’s the same standard we use for any conflict. Why single out that one to a higher standard where we point out the loss of life? Doesnt make sense. Vietnam won a unified country, and it is under communist rule. There once was a side that didnt want communism and they lost, too!

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#88

Post by Rendello »

jimmies wrote: post #19

I am a software developer in the US with a Vietnamese origin, so I am no historian and my views are probably skewed. I am among the minority Northern Vietnamese people in the US, most Vietnamese people in the Bay Area are (refugees) from the South. People can tell where one comes from with one's accent. It was undeniable that much suffering and injustice was done for Southern people, especially after the war ended. S…

I like this video about a soldier on the ground who realized quickly why the war was unwinnable. The cycle of killing and destruction left the people with nothing but anger and pain, leading them to fight even harder:

> it became clear within three or four months, That my reasons for being in Vietnam were not clear. I mean this notion of defending the people against these invaders from North Vietnam. The people hated me. The Vietnamese people hated me. [...] the Vietnamese people hated me and I gave them every reason to hate me. I beat them, I sometimes kill them, I destroy their houses, I destroy their crops, I destroy their fields, I destroy their culture. Why in the hell should those people like me? And I could see that I was doing that, and I could see that nothing we were doing was having any impact on the war itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tixOyiR8B-8

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#89

Post by knowaveragejoe »

tjpnz wrote: post #5
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #4

These are some great photos! But I really do wonder if "the winning side" was _actually_ the winning side. It seems to me that nobody won, and it's very likely that the Vietnamese people ultimately lost bigtime. USA fought a similar war a decade earlier in Korea and now South Korea is one of the preeminent countries in the entire world. Imagine what could have been for South Vietnam? Instead the entire country has be…

Have you seen Vietnam in the last 10 years? Sure, it's not what I would call a wealthy country but I didn't see much poverty either over my 6 months there - some of it spent in the countryside.

It's a wealthy country because they've continually moved away from their brand of "communism".

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2014/10/09/emerging-and-d...

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#90

Post by germandiago »

tjpnz wrote: post #5
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #4

These are some great photos! But I really do wonder if "the winning side" was _actually_ the winning side. It seems to me that nobody won, and it's very likely that the Vietnamese people ultimately lost bigtime. USA fought a similar war a decade earlier in Korea and now South Korea is one of the preeminent countries in the entire world. Imagine what could have been for South Vietnam? Instead the entire country has be…

Have you seen Vietnam in the last 10 years? Sure, it's not what I would call a wealthy country but I didn't see much poverty either over my 6 months there - some of it spent in the countryside.

They are developing and have for eating. They have some problems like the pollution... in Hanoi it is terrible. But the country is in better shape than Laos and Cambodia by far, but not at the level of BKK in Thailand for example. I lived in Vietnam for almost 10 years, and one in Singapore and I plan to come back. I have mixed feelings when I get there, but overall, it is a lovely country, my second home, literally. I left a big chunk of my life there.

I will never forget how Vietnam changed my whole life, literally. For the good. Even with the negative things it has. I am spanish and Spain also has negative things (and positive). All countries do.

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