One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks • Hacker News Board

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#551

Post by coldtea » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #213

paulgerhardt wrote: post #208

Living in Shenzhen, it’s shocking how easy it is to go out and repair stuff. Living in Palo Alto, it’s frustrating how hard it is. I’m thinking maybe, just maybe, introducing repairability laws won’t solve the problem. I am perfectly happy upgrading the memory on my MacBook Air with a reflow air station rather than swapping out some dims if it means my laptop is half as thick and twice as rugged. I’m also just as hap…

The reason it can be done in China is because those shops illegally obtain the parts (whether counterfeit or stolen, since Apple won't intentionally sell them to anyone) and resources (schematics, software, etc) to be able to do so. This situation is both good and bad. Stolen parts are good, in the sense that this grey market at least allows consumers to repair devices cost-effectively. It's also bad, because besides…

>It's also bad, because besides it essentially being theft, the grey market opens the door to bad actors who pass off used/defective/rejected/counterfeit parts as the real thing.

If they actually stole the parts they'd be in jail in no time.

What they do is merely copyright infringe - if that.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#552

Post by relix » Tue, May 25, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

passivate wrote: post #540

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. He always assumes Apple is evil, Apple is screwing repair because they like screwing repair. Most companies aren't like that - companies are made of engineers, and do they like fighting repair for the sake of fighting repair? He never addresses what ulterior motives there may be. This might actually be why he complains he's been in many legislatures, testified, and they haven't gone further. The lack of willing…

I agree that Apple isn't necessarily evil, but they sure would rather you buy a phone than repair it. That makes me wonder... is there any example where the newer model of an iPhone was easier to repair than the previous one? I'm still rocking my 6s and I had to have the front-glass replaced twice (clumsy!). Thankfully I haven't needed any other repairs.

iPhone have the longest life of all the smartphones out there. Very old phones still get software updates. They even throttle CPU to make sure an expired battery doesn't necessarily mean a broken phone.

If they really wanted you to rather buy a new phone, they'd stop providing software updates much sooner, and they'd just let the phone die as soon as the battery is broken.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#553

Post by simion314 » Tue, May 25, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

shagie wrote: post #520

simion314 wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking at the hyper publicized Macbook Air. I am personally clueless about smartphones.

http://www.notebookreview.com/notebookreview/sony-vaio-tz-re... is a review from a year before the MacBook Air was released (and in the keynote was used as a counterpoint) https://gizmodo.com/groping-sonys-vaio-tz-wonder-notebook-27... is another review from 2007 > The VAIO® TZ model incorporates the power of a larger PC into a small, portable form factor. Luxuriously sleek, it weighs just 2.65 pounds and measures le…

So maybe is my memory, but I remember we were using mass/weight not thinness to compare devices.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#554

Post by wwweston » Tue, May 25, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #428

swiley wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no that's bullshit. (and a change of subject) We're not asking for modular connectors (although those are nice) or larger competents. we're asking Apple (and everyone imitating them) to stop artificially preventing people from replacing parts (either via deals with suppliers that prevent people from buying them or via software lockouts.) People do surface mount rework all the time (I think the guy TFA is talking…

> “People do surface mount rework all the time” What percentage of Apple customers are doing surface mount rework, or even hiring other people to do this, in your estimation? My guess is less than .01%. And how much could that really be increased if Apple were forced to make their parts accessible and available in the aftermarket? Vs the carbon footprint of the extra manufacturing effort and having to set up distribu…

> My guess is less than .01%.

That do it themselves.

There's quite clearly a market for other people to do it as a service, and I'd bet you that percentage is pretty much everyone who doesn't buy a new laptop when they see the edge of their AppleCare plan, which may be on the order of half the market.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#555

Post by passivate » Tue, May 25, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

relix wrote: post #552

passivate wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that Apple isn't necessarily evil, but they sure would rather you buy a phone than repair it. That makes me wonder... is there any example where the newer model of an iPhone was easier to repair than the previous one? I'm still rocking my 6s and I had to have the front-glass replaced twice (clumsy!). Thankfully I haven't needed any other repairs.

iPhone have the longest life of all the smartphones out there. Very old phones still get software updates. They even throttle CPU to make sure an expired battery doesn't necessarily mean a broken phone. If they really wanted you to rather buy a new phone, they'd stop providing software updates much sooner, and they'd just let the phone die as soon as the battery is broken.

Yes, I do appreciate the updates. But we're talking about repair here, so I'd like to discuss that. Repairs could be needed at any time during the lifetime of a phone. Its not just about being able to repair 10 year old phones.

A 50 cent component needs to be replaced on the main-board of an Apple product. Lets say I have found a qualified repair shop willing to do the repair at a price that I agree with. Why does Apple actively block the supply of parts?

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#556

Post by shagie » Tue, May 25, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #553

shagie wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.notebookreview.com/notebookreview/sony-vaio-tz-re... is a review from a year before the MacBook Air was released (and in the keynote was used as a counterpoint) https://gizmodo.com/groping-sonys-vaio-tz-wonder-notebook-27... is another review from 2007 > The VAIO® TZ model incorporates the power of a larger PC into a small, portable form factor. Luxuriously sleek, it weighs just 2.65 pounds and measures le…

So maybe is my memory, but I remember we were using mass/weight not thinness to compare devices.

The part of the laptop area is the "ultra portable" laptop and the key criteria there is indeed the "how much does it weigh". When optimizing for that, the dimensions of the device are influenced. One way to get a lighter device is to make a smaller one.

Apple went with making it smaller in one dimension and larger in others.

https://youtu.be/jDQmvAPYjms is the keynote where the Air was released.

So, Apple wanted a full size keyboard, larger display, and more performance. To get that set of targets, they needed to make the overall device thinner.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#557

Post by thereddaikon » Tue, May 25, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

I don't understand why people are so hostile to the idea of reparability with electronics while we have enjoyed just that with cars forever. Much of what Apple and every other electronics company does with their products would be explicitly illegal it they were selling cars instead of gadgets. Why should those be any different?

For example, requiring repair/replacement at authorized repair centers is considered "tying" and illegal in the automotive industry. Same with denying warranty coverage for opening your devices. This is actually illegal already for electronic devices but its rarely enforced because who wants to go to court for a $500 phone for $1500 laptop?

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#558

Post by simion314 » Tue, May 25, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

shagie wrote: post #556

simion314 wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So maybe is my memory, but I remember we were using mass/weight not thinness to compare devices.

The part of the laptop area is the "ultra portable" laptop and the key criteria there is indeed the "how much does it weigh". When optimizing for that, the dimensions of the device are influenced. One way to get a lighter device is to make a smaller one. Apple went with making it smaller in one dimension and larger in others. https://youtu.be/jDQmvAPYjms is the keynote where the Air was released. So, Apple wanted a f…

yeah, but what looks better ? our device is 1mm thinner then previous version or our device is 50g less in weight? PR pushes hard on this thinness numbers and camera megapixels at least this is my observations and I could be wrong (I might been hit with different kind of ads and reviews)...

My point is that it is very likely that reviewers did not forced Apple to do anything (like what is the chance) but Apple pushed reviewers to focus on whatever they wanted to show(how many reviewers will tell you on how hard or impossible it is to change a battery on your device, or that you can't upgrade the disk or RAM as you did in the past)

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#559

Post by sam345 » Tue, May 25, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

My guess is that companies are opposed to the right to repair less for the loss of revenue which is likely relatively minor but more for the constraints it puts on design and manufacture. Regulating how something is made to make repair a priority will require more lawyers to interpret the mountains of regulations thst will sure to follow, severely cramping design and the pace of development.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#560

Post by webmobdev » Tue, May 25, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

CRConrad wrote: post #532

webmobdev wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "thinness" fad was started by a Motorola phone. Apple studies such fads before launching a device and latched on it. And it makes sense for phones, to a certain extent, because nobody likes a bulky phone in their pocket. For a laptop you'd actually be more concerned about the weight than its thickness.

> nobody likes a bulky phone in their pocket. Sure, the ~5"×2"×2" 1997 Motorola Whatever was a little unwieldy in your jeans. But after Nokia had brought the thickness down under 0.8" with the 6210 a few years later, that really wasn't a problem any more.

I agree. Today, mobile phones are lighter and thinner than before, and users are more concerned about larger screen size that make phones bulky and uncomfortable in your pocket or hand. The point I was trying to make is that Apple is obsessed about marketing fads to sell their devices, and the Motorola Razr - https://www.businessinsider.com/the-inside-story-of-how-the-... - was a game changer in this field in terms of both marketing and technology.