The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped • Hacker News Board

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#91

Post by cdcarter » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 11:48 PM UTC

Tharkun wrote: post #66

Anything that vaguely pretends it's a button without being one deserves to burn in hell for all eternity. This includes touch screens, capacitive or otherwise, and any other such nonsense. If I'm meant to press it, make it obvious and use a button. If I'm meant to slide it, give me a slider. Turn? Give me a knob. How hard can it be, seriously? As for engineers moaning about the life time of switches, puh-please. Show…

What input device would be the best way to play Angry Birds, then? Having played the Mac App and Chrome App versions, I definitely think touch makes the most sense.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#92

Post by SoftwareMaven » Tue, Jul 05, 2011, 12:17 AM UTC

heyimfromreddit wrote: post #87

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking about getting some of these ( http://WWW.THUMBDOGS.COM/ ) to deal with my phone while I'm on my motorcycle. There are also solutions based on sewing conductive thread through the ends of the gloves. I have no idea how well they would work for the evil called capavitive buttons. I am consistently fighting with every electronic item I own that has those damnable things. I guess my fingertips just don…

>phone while I'm on my motorcycle Probably not a good idea...

Take all the fun out...

The more likely time is when stopping for a minute to look at the map or change playlists. It is obnoxious to always be taking the gloves off for it.

I don't like to talk on the phone when I'm not riding; why would I ever choose to do it during my decompression time? :)

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#93

Post by notatoad » Tue, Jul 05, 2011, 12:36 AM UTC

as long as my phone's primary interface is a capacitive touchscreen, i don't see a problem with the buttons being capacitive as well. it's really just an extension of the screen interface, dedicated to a specific purpose.

yes, it sucks that i can't press the buttons on my phone with mittens on. but i wouldn't give up my capacitive touchscreen in exchange for a phone that operated solely by physical buttons.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#94

Post by caf » Tue, Jul 05, 2011, 12:39 AM UTC

My Samsung TV has capacitive buttons - in the shiny black surround, labelled with tiny iconographs in very, very dark grey. It took me several minutes to even find the 'on' button when I first got it.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#95

Post by kilburn » Tue, Jul 05, 2011, 1:22 AM UTC

cdcarter wrote: post #91

Tharkun wrote: post #66

Anything that vaguely pretends it's a button without being one deserves to burn in hell for all eternity. This includes touch screens, capacitive or otherwise, and any other such nonsense. If I'm meant to press it, make it obvious and use a button. If I'm meant to slide it, give me a slider. Turn? Give me a knob. How hard can it be, seriously? As for engineers moaning about the life time of switches, puh-please. Show…

What input device would be the best way to play Angry Birds, then? Having played the Mac App and Chrome App versions, I definitely think touch makes the most sense.

A custom device including one knob to control the angle and one (physical) slider to control the strength. I know this is stupid when thinking about a casual game, but it would totally make sense to me if my job was to "play angry birds 8 hours a day".

My point is that proper "physical" controls are better for almost every task out there. The obvious downside is that you can't make them appear and disappear depending on the current application being executed ;)

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#96

Post by ak217 » Tue, Jul 05, 2011, 1:39 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #30

Its interesting to hear designers on a rant about capacitive buttons. Switches are the bane of most electrical engineers because they cost a lot and they have a finite lifetime. So generally they are thing that is going to 'kill' the product. And because they are both mechanical and have moving parts (in the non-capacitive variant) when they break the users just push harder trying to get them to work and that can cra…

The devices themselves have a finite lifetime. As long as the switch outlives the projected time to obsolescence of the device, it's fine. And I know there are switches out there which can do that...

What really irks me (and what I'm surprised to see so few people spell out) is that there's no tactile feedback on capacitive buttons (or microwave-like buttons). Tactile feedback makes every aspect of the UI profoundly better.

(Tactile feedback is possible on capacitive buttons... the first company which brings capacitive touchscreens with tactile feedback to market will make it huge (and the recent huge investment from Apple may have been into that technology). But no one has come out with a decent implementation yet...)

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#97

Post by faboo » Tue, Jul 05, 2011, 1:41 AM UTC

digikata wrote: post #85

Sidnicious wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, I think that the article is about touch-sensitive buttons that provide no feedback — not about the more-common kitchen appliance buttons which live behind a plastic sheet but actually click when you push them.

Those membrane buttons are more common on ovens, but I did mean capacitive buttons on my oven. Honestly, I think there are companies and products lines which take the time and care to do the human factors engineering whatever interface is selected for the design, and there are products which don't have that attention paid to htem - blaming the button technology itself is sort of a side show to the actual focus on use…

Indeed! Our dishwasher has membrane buttons on the front to operate it, and everyone in our house has accidentally turned the washer on by accidentally leaning on a button.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#98

Post by bugsy » Tue, Jul 05, 2011, 2:15 AM UTC

I would totally buy his book if I didn't find the prices of tech books to be completely absurd.

I remember how for 15 years VHS movies cost from $79.95 to $119.95 because they figured their only customers were video rental stores. The problem was they were selling each movie once for $80 instead of selling it 500 times for $20. Since fixing their flawed pricing model, far more movies are sold than before, to the point that rental stores have all but disappeared.

Could a similar thing be happening with books? Perhaps they are pricing for library use, where many users are expected to read one book. Or perhaps they are targeting captive audiences like in colleges where impoverished youth are shaken down.

Usability failure? Market failure? Or smart pricing model?

I'd buy a decently bound paperback as is being offered of this length and interest for $9.95 to $17.95. But I won't pay $35-44, not even close.

The question is, how many others are out there like me that represent lost sales. Maybe I am the only one. In that case, $44 is the right price. Or why not even $99.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#99

Post by VladRussian » Tue, Jul 05, 2011, 2:46 AM UTC

ak217 wrote: post #96

ChuckMcM wrote: post #30

Its interesting to hear designers on a rant about capacitive buttons. Switches are the bane of most electrical engineers because they cost a lot and they have a finite lifetime. So generally they are thing that is going to 'kill' the product. And because they are both mechanical and have moving parts (in the non-capacitive variant) when they break the users just push harder trying to get them to work and that can cra…

The devices themselves have a finite lifetime. As long as the switch outlives the projected time to obsolescence of the device, it's fine. And I know there are switches out there which can do that... What really irks me (and what I'm surprised to see so few people spell out) is that there's no tactile feedback on capacitive buttons (or microwave-like buttons). Tactile feedback makes every aspect of the UI profoundly…

an idea for tactile feedback if used in low power version, well below "pain" level:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System#Effects

Developed by CPI here in Palo Alto.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#100

Post by btilly » Tue, Jul 05, 2011, 3:34 AM UTC

heyimfromreddit wrote: post #88

Tharkun wrote: post #66

Anything that vaguely pretends it's a button without being one deserves to burn in hell for all eternity. This includes touch screens, capacitive or otherwise, and any other such nonsense. If I'm meant to press it, make it obvious and use a button. If I'm meant to slide it, give me a slider. Turn? Give me a knob. How hard can it be, seriously? As for engineers moaning about the life time of switches, puh-please. Show…

Can anyone type 150WPM on a non-touch screen phone?

That's twice what the typical professional typist can do. But I'm sure some people might be able to hit that speed. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words_per_minute for more.