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Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

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Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#171

Post by ipaddr »

pradn wrote: post #162
aclelland wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there are a lot of very obscure legal rules that most people aren't aware of or haven't been enforced in many years. Not from as far back but my house was built in the early 1980's and my house deeds include the stipulation that I must maintain a garage attached to the property (so I can't convert it to extra living space) because the local government retain the right to convert the space into a decontamination…

The wild thing is we still have thousands of nuclear weapons, and the number of nuclear-armed states has grown since then. We just perceive a lower risk now-a-days, which I hope holds up.

The number of overall weapons has decreased by thousands. The coldwar is over so the risk nuclear war is lower.

More nations have weapons but the numbers weapons they have is very low and the ability to hit the US doesn't exist for the rogue nations.

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#172

Post by ddoolin »

alach11 wrote: post #156
PicassoCTs wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In east germany, there are strange constellations, were someone might own the ground, but not the house upon it and vice versa. Some pieces of land were bought, before the original "owning" aristocrats descendants laid claim to them. In west germany, there were, originally very small, medieval fields, so a "Flurbereinigung" happened several times. This led to larger fields to work on, but below, some of them still ar…

This split ownership reminds me of a similar situation in the USA, where different entities can own the surface rights and mineral rights. What gets weird, is owning the mineral rights legally entitles you to use the surface (to a limited degree) to access the minerals.

This is pretty common in the Rockies in Colorado, although not usually exercised! Many, many lots are zoned M for Mining and the situation you mentioned applies just like that.

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#173

Post by ateng »

nly wrote: post #157
ateng wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. 50s / 60s US income tax is much, much higher than current rate. I just think the cycle of going up and down is extremely long. https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Historical_Margina...

The top rates were much higher but few people actually paid those high rates due to loopholes. These days people are paying more in real terms in aggregate.

I’m not sure about that either —- there were no tax havens back then. It’s so much easier since 80s to work around the tax system with off shore companies (granted it is getting harder for the past decade)

Or was I unaware the widespread loophole back in the old days?

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#174

Post by afiori »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #126
rini17 wrote: post #117

Consider yourself lucky that you can reliably trace land ownership for centuries. Eastern Europe went through multiple upheavals in last 100 years and every time the wheel of history turned, quite a lot of land was dispossessed/repossessed by law. In Slovakia we basically ended up with two versions of land registry (called register "C" and "E") and the ongoing effort to reconcile them. Many properties are said to be…

Sounds a lot like what's been going on in Israel / Palestine.

Specifically the first kind, much less of the second.

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#175

Post by bonzini »

mschuster91 wrote: post #83
Joker_vD wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that none of the European countries to the eastern side of the Iron Curtain retained feudal law, or much of the "legacy" law in general. That, I guess, is one of the few potential upsides of any revolution: an opportunity arises to just throw away a lot of pre-existing arrangements and re-draw them anew in (hopefully) more sensible way. Of course, the quality of the new design and/or its implementation is n…

> I suspect that none of the European countries to the eastern side of the Iron Curtain retained feudal law, or much of the "legacy" law in general. Rather make that "no country other than the US and UK+Commonwealth countries". These two countries are probably the only ones in the world that haven't suffered any kind of comprehensive revolution in the last 100 years, and it shows. Not just in the absurd amount of pre…

Large parts of the Italian civil and penal code date back to the Statuto Albertino and to Roman civil law, just like there are principles in common between UK and US common law.

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#176

Post by bonzini »

znpy wrote: post #82
Y_Y wrote: post #2

Maybe they should apply to the king of Italy for relief, since it is from his divine right to all the land that the fief is granted to his vassals.

there's no such thing as king of italy. and since the thing came up: there is no such thing as prince of italy either, nor princess or queen. and by the way, the savoia line of blood isn't even legitimate as heir to the now-nonexistant throne. the legitimate heirs would be the descendant of Aimone duke of Aosta, which nowadays have better things to do.

That was the joke.

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#177

Post by iso1631 »

pradn wrote: post #162
aclelland wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there are a lot of very obscure legal rules that most people aren't aware of or haven't been enforced in many years. Not from as far back but my house was built in the early 1980's and my house deeds include the stipulation that I must maintain a garage attached to the property (so I can't convert it to extra living space) because the local government retain the right to convert the space into a decontamination…

The wild thing is we still have thousands of nuclear weapons, and the number of nuclear-armed states has grown since then. We just perceive a lower risk now-a-days, which I hope holds up.

We're more aware that in a situation where a local council has to take over your garage for decontanimation

1) You wouldn't have a local council

2) You wouldn't have a garage

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#178

Post by nly »

ateng wrote: post #173
nly wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top rates were much higher but few people actually paid those high rates due to loopholes. These days people are paying more in real terms in aggregate.

I’m not sure about that either —- there were no tax havens back then. It’s so much easier since 80s to work around the tax system with off shore companies (granted it is getting harder for the past decade) Or was I unaware the widespread loophole back in the old days?

Not so much a loophole, but back in the 50s all kinds of income were treated the same which meant you could write off your income against your investment losses.

I think it's naive to assume that rich Americans back then weren't working the system. If it was so great, why do we tax different kinds of income differently now?

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#179

Post by bivargen »

mellavora wrote: post #145
acheron wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Old English word for spear was "gar". One vegetable was related to the leek, but they described the clove as spear-shaped: the gar-leek. https://www.etymonline.com/word/garlic

And interestingly enough, the Swedish word for the fish which is called "pike" in English is "gär". Lots of Nordic words in old English.

No, it’s not, the fish is called ”gädda”. The swedish cognate to gar would be ger, which has the same meaning of acute angle/point.

Re: Italian seaside residents hit with bygone feudal tax

#180

Post by afiori »

FpUser wrote: post #91
AdrianB1 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume taxes are a payment for services? In most cases there is no written contract with rights and obligations of each party and there is no implied right or obligation of any sort.

>"Why do you assume taxes are a payment for services?" Because the only alternative in this case is the outright theft. >"there is no implied right or obligation of any sort." Sorry but there is implied obligation. I totally expect to get some services in return for money taken from me and I suspect I am not alone. For experiment try sending part of government that does actual services for constituents for a year lon…

If I hold stock in a company I receive magic free money without doing anything. There is a substantial difference in how the relation is created though
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