The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped • Hacker News Board

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#71

Post by Zak » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 7:21 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #69

Zak wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's an important distinction. Still, there are valid reasons for preferring physical buttons that virtual buttons or other on-screen controls do not address.

I only know of two, do you have more? 1. Feedback. This turns out to not be important for most people for most tasks. Still physical feedback (of layout and of action) important tool of physical interaction and required for eyes-free operation. I fully expect this problem to be solved within two years. 2. Software bypass. This is mostly useful in case of complete software lockup (low level/OS crash), but while most p…

I was going to say tactile positioning, but you seem to be rolling that in to feedback/layout. I would also add the distinction between putting your finger on a control and actually activating it. Capacitive technology doesn't provide a good way to handle that[0]. For an extreme example of the type of control you'd like to make such a distinction, consider the trigger of a gun. It may be important to be very ready to activate the control, and even more important to not activate it prematurely.

[0] I don't consider press and hold, double-tap or similar to be good general-purpose solutions to this

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#72

Post by ugh » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 7:24 PM UTC

Tharkun wrote: post #66

Anything that vaguely pretends it's a button without being one deserves to burn in hell for all eternity. This includes touch screens, capacitive or otherwise, and any other such nonsense. If I'm meant to press it, make it obvious and use a button. If I'm meant to slide it, give me a slider. Turn? Give me a knob. How hard can it be, seriously? As for engineers moaning about the life time of switches, puh-please. Show…

Alright then. Nothing wrong with peculiar opinions but you know that your opinion is very peculiar, right? Software keyboards, for example, can be valuable for people even if nobody can type 150 words per minute on them.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#73

Post by rdtsc » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 7:45 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #62

jasonkester wrote: post #44

Those buttons hit their maximum disaster level when installed on an induction stove. You know, the ones that are one flat shiny panel with areas that magically turn red and hot at the push of a button? Of course, said buttons are always next to impossible to press correctly (except by accident), so the standard use case is to mash your finger onto it until some form of feedback occurs. More often than not, that feedb…

Those buttons hit their maximum disaster level when installed on an induction stove. You know, the ones that are one flat shiny panel with areas that magically turn red and hot at the push of a button? That's not an induction stove. An induction stove uses electromagnetism to heat a ferromagnetic cooking device positioned above a coil. The stove surface only becomes hot due to conduction away from the pot or pan. If…

He probably meant smooth cook-top as someone else already pointed out.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#74

Post by underwater » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 7:55 PM UTC

Shenglong wrote: post #59

egypturnash wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Who answers their phone in the rain with the face up?" People who have never managed to figure out whether it's a single click, long click, double-click, or whatever else on the headphone button to answer the phone. People who have never figured the above out because they have a couple different sets of headphones that have made different choices from the above options. People who don't habitually wander around with…

I honestly feel that as an intelligent human being, our first response to meeting an inconvinence problem should be to think of a solution, rather than complain. All the things I've mentioned are by no means difficult to think of, or implement. iPhone comes with buttoned headphones. Thin Leather gloves serve other purposes and are decently cheap. To me, this sounds like: "I've opted to close my eyes, and I can't see…

I never walk around wearing headphones. I simply don't understand people who think that every waking moment of their life needs a soundtrack.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#75

Post by kogir » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 7:58 PM UTC

The worst offenders are android phones like my nexus one with capacitive buttons right beneath the software keyboard. Overshoot the space bar just a tiny bit? Hello home screen, goodbye app. Some apps handle this and you can just press back -- others lose all of what you just typed.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#76

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 8:08 PM UTC

Zak wrote: post #29

sudonim wrote: post #26

My guess is capacitive buttons have a lower failure rate than physical buttons. It's probably a decision born of cost.

I don't doubt it. The problem is that consumers are still viewing them as a high-end feature instead of the cost-cutting measure they are, so they keep showing up in high-end products with prices that could support the superior and more costly physical buttons.

Indeed it is. Data point: until this discussion I too believed that capacitive buttons are much more expensive and much more "high-tech" than physical buttons.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#77

Post by Keyframe » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 8:29 PM UTC

As soon as I saw the title, I thought of my Samsung Omnia 7, heh. Back button is manageable, but search button has caused a lot of swear words!

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#78

Post by tzs » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 8:30 PM UTC

How about capacitive buttons in elevators? It's very annoying if your hands are full and you can't easily find some other exposed body part to touch the button.

With normal buttons you at least have a shot at nailing them with an elbow or a foot.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#79

Post by eropple » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 9:32 PM UTC

mark_story wrote: post #27

One place I found that capacitive buttons have worked well is on the newer xbox models. The power and tray eject buttons are capacitive and it works well there.

Nearly broke the CD tray on my 360 when I was leaning over my TV stand to get at the wiring in the back, brushed the power/eject button with my knee, and jammed the tray into my leg. I'd rather a button.

The PS3, on the other hand, has its capacitive buttons on a surface that's at right angles to things that might brush up against it. Which is, IMO, the best design.

Re: The Capacitive Button Cult Must Be Stopped

#80

Post by DufusM » Mon, Jul 04, 2011, 9:53 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #23

binarymax wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I can activate a touch button with my finger than why not my ear? EDIT: I didn't know about the proximity sensors and other mechanisms until the replies below informed me. I still prefer tactile though :)

This is an example of Apple's design brilliance. They have a feature that just works , and it's perfectly normal for users to have no idea why it just works or why other products that seem to have the same features are so frustrating to use. Of course, the downside is that people sometimes buy a product that seems to be "as good as an iPhone," and they have no idea that their user experience is worse than the iPhone'…

http://www.google.com/search?q=iphone+proximity+sensor+bug

Just to counter the "brilliance" part of your statement, there was an issue with the proximity sensor in iPhone 4 that took a couple of months to fix :)

I think this bug matches part of the issues people have with capacitive buttons - those buttons are prone to be active when they shouldn't causing mishits.